Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
Do you really want to set theologians against God-whispering bible verse?
Whispering bible verse? What on earth does that mean sounds kinda creepy to me.

Proverbs1:20
"Out in the open "wisdom calls aloud", she raises her voice in the public square;"
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
It's not just about confessing

Romans 10:9-12
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.

There are people I know who believe Jesus was a real person, like his teachings and some even say they want to do what he says and hope on judgement day their good works get them in. When I press in and talk about him rising from the dead they reject that.

I listen to the radio on the way into work.
They have a slot called "Pause for thought" basically a slot for a couple of minutes where leaders of various faith give a little talk. The people who do this are a selection who rotate.

This morning they had a lady give her talk, she said "Krishna my Lord"
In fact George Harrison wrote a song called "My sweet lord" in fact I had it in my music library, until I realised that a line he sung was "Hare Krishna"

So people can confess someone as Lord like Krishna but they know he did not rise from the dead.

Sadly today we see it creeping into the church that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead. I think that was the same in the early church with the Gnostics, along with other things.

So confessing Jesus as Lord, or walking in the ways he taught means absolutely nothing, NADA, diddly squat if one does not believe the Son of God physically rose again after dying on the cross whilst are sins were laid upon him and when he gave his last breath the temple curtain was torn in two so that we can come before the throne of God as a result of faith.

Romans 5:1-5

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
I understand what you are saying, but for our purposes we all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

So our confession would include that. Thank you.

The problem is some do not believe that confession is part of the salvation process, even though Romans 10:9-10 clearly state that it is. TT believes that confession is a work and is therefore not part of the salvation process, but is done after one is saved, contrary to what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10.

So what do you say?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Whispering bible verse? What on earth does that mean sounds kinda creepy to me.

Proverbs1:20
"Out in the open "wisdom calls aloud", she raises her voice in the public square;"
It means God-inspired, or God-Whispered. It is the way God let the apostles know what to write in their letters to the church that eventually became our bible.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I understand what you are saying, but for our purposes we all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

So our confession would include that. Thank you.

The problem is some do not believe that confession is part of the salvation process, even though Romans 10:9-10 clearly state that it is. TT believes that confession is a work and is therefore not part of the salvation process, but is done after one is saved, contrary to what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10.

So what do you say?
your belief that confession of the mouth being needed for salvation is wrong

youre adding works onto Gods gift


and falsely condemning anyone who cannot speak with your strange beliefs
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
your belief that confession of the mouth being needed for salvation is wrong

youre adding works onto Gods gift


and falsely condemning anyone who cannot speak with your strange beliefs
If confessing that Jesus....., is considered a work, and I am doing the horrible act of adding works to Gods gift,
And
my belief that confessing that Jesus...., is somehow a strange belief,
you seriously need to talk to a religious psychologist, and have him reset your religious paradigm. Otherwise you will eventually go crazy as people throughout Christendom present their strange, straight-out-of-the bible beliefs to you. You will go crazy because of your myopic view of bible scripture and bible doctrines.

Oh, and BTW, in order for you to make your statement, you have to subtract words from the Holy Bible, so good luck with that.

I am pretty much done with this little segment of this thread. I tried to go simple and straight-forward and ran right into a buzzsaw, so enough is enough. You may have the last word on Romans 10:9-10, but I have said all I am going to say. Thank you.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
Now you can really see what these horrible fake gospels are all about.

Romans8:1
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,999
10,794
113
55
What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
Did you read post #66,551?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
I understand what you are saying, but for our purposes we all believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

So our confession would include that. Thank you.

The problem is some do not believe that confession is part of the salvation process, even though Romans 10:9-10 clearly state that it is. TT believes that confession is a work and is therefore not part of the salvation process, but is done after one is saved, contrary to what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10.

So what do you say?
What do I say?

I would say that salvation occured when

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

So Paul says when we confess the above and believe in our hearts this leads to salvation, we will be saved.

With regards to work

John 6:29
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.” (NLT)

John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (NKJV)

The above rendered differently.
One says it's the work of God, the other is the only work he wants is to believe in Jesus.

Either way the result is the same. Belief in Jesus.

So for me the confession that Pauk talks about and Jesus says is not part of the salvation process it's the start of salvation.

Maybe there is some misunderstanding concerning "Salvation process"

We cannot be initially saved without a genuine confession and belief.

So I'm talking about confessing unbelief in Jesus.
That is a sin which is why Jesus had to go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come, yet he only mentions the sin of unbelief.

John 16:8-11
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

So the Holy Spirit convicts in the first instance unbelief.
Not sure if the righteousness mentioned in the above verses relate to that in Romans.

So is confession a work after our initial confession that results in our salvation.

I would say yes and no.

The reason I say yes is actually tongue in cheek.
There have been many times where God has had to keep proding me to confess my sin.
Mainly when I carry unforgivness in my heart against others. And infact he has taken it deeper. Like when someone has cut me up on the road and I call them a nasty name.

But overall to me confession should not be a work but a natural process as a result of loving relationship, between us and God and us and those we have offended.
Confession is about relationship.

So taking my tongue out of my cheek confession is not a work.

I would add a caveat though.

Many belivers find it difficult to come before God because they are sin conscious and as a result they are expecting a beating. Their guilt stops them.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
Seriously.


How can you accuse every person who has ever lived without the ability to speak of having zero chance to have ever been saved.... even if they believed.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
If confessing that Jesus....., is considered a work, and I am doing the horrible act of adding works to Gods gift,
And
my belief that confessing that Jesus...., is somehow a strange belief,
you seriously need to talk to a religious psychologist, and have him reset your religious paradigm. Otherwise you will eventually go crazy as people throughout Christendom present their strange, straight-out-of-the bible beliefs to you. You will go crazy because of your myopic view of bible scripture and bible doctrines.

Oh, and BTW, in order for you to make your statement, you have to subtract words from the Holy Bible, so good luck with that.

I am pretty much done with this little segment of this thread. I tried to go simple and straight-forward and ran right into a buzzsaw, so enough is enough. You may have the last word on Romans 10:9-10, but I have said all I am going to say. Thank you.
NoNameMcGee is challenging your assumption as he perceives it that someone has to physically confess in order to be saved.

If that is the case then I stand with him.
If a person who is not a believer had throat cancer and as a result has their voice box removed, but then becomes a believer they cannot confess physically with their mouth because no words will come out of their mouth.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
Ah interesting.

You say by your confession you will be be saved.
Just like Paul said.

Correct me if I'm wrong but but you believe we can become unsaved.
So you confess according to Romans that you WILL be saved.

So if that's the case then is that not the case?
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
It means God-inspired, or God-Whispered. It is the way God let the apostles know what to write in their letters to the church that eventually became our bible.
Thanks for clarifying your words, I've heard scripture is "God breathed" and "God inspired" but God whispered is something I had never heard before.

2Timothy3:16
All Scripture is "God-breathed", and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
in short, what is irresistable grace?





 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
You forgot to add and, "you can lose" your eternal salvation and that salvation is by works. Eternal Life is a free gift and no one can snatch us out of His hands. Your fake gospel leads you to fear of losing your salvation and never knowing if I am in or out of salvation.

Yes it is a horrible insecure gospel that you promote.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
wait a second


What a horrible fake gospel it is to think that by confessing with my mouth the Lord Jesus, and that by believing in my heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, that I will be saved.

Wow, geesh, wow, is that the most horrible fake gospel you have ever heard of?
does ben think paul is lying?
or does he believe God forgot to whisper in pauls ear that being fully dipped in water is also needed according to bens beliefs?

as well as the fact by bens belief one has to choose to continue to believe after these works are done in order to remain saved.....
:unsure:


can you say someone "will" be saved if it is dependant on their actions following?

if you say someone will be saved (from a just punishment) if they do x y and z

then you can know you are saved (from a just punishment)

but then you have to suffer that just punishment
....


uhhhh
when were you saved?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,999
10,794
113
55

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,261
4,202
113
It means God-inspired, or God-Whispered. It is the way God let the apostles know what to write in their letters to the church that eventually became our bible.
NOW WHERE ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH DID YOU GET THAT GOD-Whispered theology FROM, the MORMONS?

2 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

NOT THERE.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God
spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


Now there it said they spoke, and then apparently WROTE IT DOWN.