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Oct 31, 2015
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  • Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JPT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32
Continue reading in John 8:33-59 and *notice that the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in.

John 8:31 - ..“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Those who do not continue demonstrate that they were not TRULY disciples of Jesus.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.
DESCRIPTIVE of unbelievers.

He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
DESCRIPTIVE of believers.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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  • Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

  • Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9




JPT

YOU ABIDE AFTER YOU ARE SAVED, NOT BEFORE.


1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


You do not Honor people who believe in the BIBLICAL POSITION OF OSAS.


AND YOU DO NOT ALWAYS DRIVE YOUR CAR UNDER THE SPEED ORDINANCE.








 
Oct 31, 2015
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YOU ABIDE AFTER YOU ARE SAVED, NOT BEFORE.

Absolutely True.


We are called to abide or remain in Him.

Abide = Remain; Remain "connected" in relationship.


Just like the example He is teaching of a branch remaining connected to the Vine, from where it's receives it's "life".


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


People who are saved, are "in Christ".


Those who do not remain "in Christ", are cast into the fire and burned.



Here is how to remain or abide in Christ.


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Yes few will actually find eternal life even though they have entered through the door and are on the road that leads to life, because people do go astray and become lost.



Do you understand that a sheep who becomes lost must repent and turn to God in order to be reconciled back to Him, or suffer eternal death.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



JPT

Do you even know what the Narrow Gate IS?


I go to a BIBLE Teaching Community Church, that has one hour sermons. We consider ourselves to be CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL.

NOW where do you Go to Church, and how much Bible Teaching do you get each Sunday?
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Do you even know what the Narrow Gate IS?


I go to a BIBLE Teaching Community Church, that has one hour sermons. We consider ourselves to be CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL.

NOW where do you Go to Church, and how much Bible Teaching do you get each Sunday?

I'm still waiting for you to define the word "lost".


Sheep who wander away and become lost, are as sinners in need of repentance, or face eternal death.


Do you understand that a sheep who becomes lost must repent and turn to God in order to be reconciled back to Him, or suffer eternal death.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?


For the rational Christian, who desires to know and walk in truth, all that is needed is to simply read this passage of scripture, to know that OSAS is a lie from hell.



  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


A Christian who becomes lost, is as a sinner in need of repentance.



The prodigal son, same thing -



32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


Now, let me see you define what "lost" means.




JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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  • if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?


For the rational Christian, who desires to know and walk in truth, all that is needed is to simply read this passage of scripture, to know that OSAS is a lie from hell.



  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Who are the 99 who need no repentance?

We agree they Jesus came to seek the lost?
He is the shepherd, the one who met with sinners.
The sinners the Pharisees criticised Jesus for spending time with.
Causing him up give this parable.

So Jesus seeks the lost and they respond and there is great joy.
They repent of the sin on unbelief.

John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

We find also Jesus saying

John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

John 18:9
9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

Bill
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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15:7 likewise: Jesus compared the joy of finding a lost sheep to the joy of heaven over a sinner’s repentance. The unstated conclusion is that the hope of such a conversion was the reason Jesus associated with the undesirable of society. Persons who need no repentance is a rhetorical way of describing the scribes and Pharisees. A similar description is found in 5:31, where it is said that some do not need a physician. The scribes and Pharisees believed that they did not need to repent because they were not lost. Bible Study notes.
 
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Who are the 99 who need no repentance?
The 100 sheep all belong to the shepherd.

He calls them “just”.


The one who wanders away and becomes lost, is no longer just and is called a sinner who needs to repent.


Lost = Seperated from God. Dead to God.
Unreconciled.


JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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John 6:38-39
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

Yes it’s the Fathers will that none should perish but all come to repentance.


JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
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Thank you VCO, simple truth, hard lesson for some.

Absolutely True.


We are called to abide or remain in Him.

Abide = Remain; Remain "connected" in relationship.


Just like the example He is teaching of a branch remaining connected to the Vine, from where it's receives it's "life".


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


People who are saved, are "in Christ".


Those who do not remain "in Christ", are cast into the fire and burned.



Here is how to remain or abide in Christ.


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,251
3,991
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The 100 sheep all belong to the shepherd.

He calls them “just”.


The one who wanders away and becomes lost, is no longer just and is called a sinner who needs to repent.


Lost = Seperated from God. Dead to God.
Unreconciled.


JPT
But the 99 needed no repentance.

What is repentance?
If one needs no repentance what is that saying?

Would you say you get it wrong at times? Are disobedient or not walked in a way you know you should off done?

If so then you know you need to repent, why would that be?

Because you know you know you need Jesus, that you love him and have placed your faith in him.

Yes all the sheep belong to the shepherd, all human beings belong to the shepherd, even the goats. Afterall all of not then he cannot tell them to depart.

All human beings belong to God as he has created all human beings.

So we have 100 sheep, all in the wilderness.
One goes astray in the wilderness, he goes off and finds it.
When he does he puts it on his shoulder but there is no mention of him going back to the 99, he calls his friends and neighbors and rejoices with them.

Who are his neighbours and who are his friends?
Those who love him and turn to him, those he bought out of the wilderness.

So 99 still in the wilderness, is it possible that those 99 were infact the Pharisees/Scribes who felt no need to repent because they thought they were not lost.
Not like those nasty sinners, the scum of the society that Jesus came to rescue?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,256
4,198
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I'm still waiting for you to define the word "lost".


Sheep who wander away and become lost, are as sinners in need of repentance, or face eternal death.


Do you understand that a sheep who becomes lost must repent and turn to God in order to be reconciled back to Him, or suffer eternal death.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20


  • if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death



4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


  • if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?


For the rational Christian, who desires to know and walk in truth, all that is needed is to simply read this passage of scripture, to know that OSAS is a lie from hell.



  • I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


A Christian who becomes lost, is as a sinner in need of repentance.



The prodigal son, same thing -



32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”
Luke 15:32


  • for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’


Now, let me see you define what "lost" means.




JPT

I told you, and you did not read it, it is a Prodigal. WE ARE ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD, prior to becoming BORN AGAIN. The Prodigal did not have the Holy Spirit in his heart. The same is true today, there are Prodigals who have not been SAVED, sitting in our pews every Sunday, even though they have been baptized in water, and sit in pews every Sunday, IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. The DIFFERENCE between a Prodigal and an one that NEVER COMES BACK, is the Prodigal will always come back to the FATHER, whereas the One Who Never Comes Back is a UNBELIEVER. NO, the Prodigal was not saved before he left, OR HE WOULD NOT HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH.


1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


That includes Prodigals and those who only Tasted of the Holy Spirit and returned to their UNBELIEF.

Dr. John MacArthur put it this way:

They spent their lives dealing with Scripture and public worship—but they never really possessed any of the treasures enjoyed by the repentant sinner.
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

John 6:44 (CSBBible)
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.


You see, I BELIEVE ALL OF THE BIBLE, AND PROPERLY INTERPRETED, it will CREATE NO CONTRADICTIONS.

So How many CONTRADICTIONS DOES YOUR THEOLOGY CREATE?



NOW I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO ANSWER, What is your denomination, if it is non-denominational then what style of CHURCH IS IT, and How Long are your Sermons, so we know that, could your lack of understanding be just a poor DIET of Spiritual FOOD?


I already told you, that our Community Church considers itself to be CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Do you even know what the Narrow Gate IS?


I go to a BIBLE Teaching Community Church, that has one hour sermons. We consider ourselves to be CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL.

NOW where do you Go to Church, and how much Bible Teaching do you get each Sunday?
So now the bible is not enough, you have to go to the right Christian church and get the right training in order to know that OSAS is the truth?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
So now the bible is not enough, you have to go to the right Christian church and get the right training in order to know that OSAS is the truth?
he is not at all implying that

he is informing you of where he goes to fellowship with his brothers and sisters as well as further his studies


then asking you where you go?

you have very strange beliefs ben

i believe he asked a fair question
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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So now the bible is not enough, you have to go to the right Christian church and get the right training in order to know that OSAS is the truth?
Or go to the right Christian church that teaches OSAS or E/S is a lie from hell and those who believe it are going to the place it comes from along with those leading them there.

Or one that teaches that baptism saves, or if you die with one unforgivness in your heart then you are going to hell.

Same churches, same Bible different interpretations.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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I told you, and you did not read it, it is a Prodigal. WE ARE ALL SPIRITUALLY DEAD, prior to becoming BORN AGAIN. The Prodigal did not have the Holy Spirit in his heart. The same is true today, there are Prodigals who have not been SAVED, sitting in our pews every Sunday, even though they have been baptized in water, and sit in pews every Sunday, IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. The DIFFERENCE between a Prodigal and an one that NEVER COMES BACK, is the Prodigal will always come back to the FATHER, whereas the One Who Never Comes Back is a UNBELIEVER. NO, the Prodigal was not saved before he left, OR HE WOULD NOT HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH.


1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.


That includes Prodigals and those who only Tasted of the Holy Spirit and returned to their UNBELIEF.

Dr. John MacArthur put it this way:




John 6:44 (CSBBible)
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.


You see, I BELIEVE ALL OF THE BIBLE, AND PROPERLY INTERPRETED, it will CREATE NO CONTRADICTIONS.

So How many CONTRADICTIONS DOES YOUR THEOLOGY CREATE?



NOW I AM WAITING FOR YOU TO ANSWER, What is your denomination, if it is non-denominational then what style of CHURCH IS IT, and How Long are your Sermons, so we know that, could your lack of understanding be just a poor DIET of Spiritual FOOD?


I already told you, that our Community Church considers itself to be CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL.
The prodical was saved. We know this because he would have inherited what the father had. Just like the other son who did not leave. An unbeliever or fake believer would not inherit.

In the case of the 1 lost sheep. This was a sheep. IOW a believer that was lost and would have been dead, but now was found and alive again, through the good brother that found the dead sheep and revived him and through the repentance process, the sheep came alive again.

OSAS not a valid doctrine. Jesus will never force anyone to heaven.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
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he is not at all implying that

he is informing you of where he goes to fellowship with his brothers and sisters as well as further his studies


then asking you where you go?

you have very strange beliefs ben

i believe he asked a fair question
How strange are they? You keep telling me this, and I keep trying to figure out how strange are my biblical beliefs?

I believe in Jesus as my Savior. I believe that faith in Jesus is essential. I believe that it is necessary to live the commandments that Jesus taught us. I believe that if we do not we will go to hell. I believe that because I love Jesus, he will show me the works he has prepared for me to do, and if I do those works, I will live with him forever in the KOG. How strange and horrible is that? Wow, geesh, wow.

Now I know that my belief is strange to one who believes that the second you believe you are saved and you cannot do anything to eliminate your saved position. Bu my beliefs are what 50% of Christians believe. You know that a great % of Christians do not believe in OSAS or ES. They believe like I do.