Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I do believe that a lack of good works/love will damn me. You see, good works is one important aspect of love and without the full and complete love of Jesus in you, you will not be saved, no matter how much you believe you have been saved.
You are promoting a salvation by grace plus works, the blood shed by our Savior for your salvation was not good enough for you, so you must drag your wonderful works with you to complete Gods plan of salvation. Your weak gospel is; God's grace plus your works, "A False Gospel." We are, "Saved by grace, not by works" a lesson you fail to understand.

A "False Gospel" right here for everyone to see: "I do believe that a lack of good works/love will damn me."
You are "mixing grace with works", a false gospel. Your gospel brings gloom and doom, not "Good News", you have created a "Self-righteous", save myself false gospel."

And also; "What Church Denomination are you associated with", everyone wants to know.

2Timothy1:9
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, "not because of our own works," but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal.

Titus3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,"
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
You are promoting a salvation by grace plus works, the blood shed by our Savior for your salvation was not good enough for you, so you must drag your wonderful works with you to complete Gods plan of salvation. Your weak gospel is; God's grace plus your works, "A False Gospel." We are, "Saved by grace, not by works" a lesson you fail to understand.

A "False Gospel" right here for everyone to see: "I do believe that a lack of good works/love will damn me."
You are "mixing grace with works", a false gospel. Your gospel brings gloom and doom, not "Good News", you have created a "Self-righteous", save myself false gospel."

And also; "What Church Denomination are you associated with", everyone wants to know.

2Timothy1:9
He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, "not because of our own works," but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time eternal.

Titus3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,"
Amen

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Romans 11:6
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
The VAST MAJORITY of these types of Churches would believe in the Eternal Security in CHRIST. The reason that it is impossible to give you an exact total, is because the Church Board of Elders would agree on the exact wording of the Doctrinal Statement of Faith. Therefore, one would have to check every single Doctrinal Statement in the world, to come up with that figure. So here is a partial List, to give you an idea of what denominations believe you cannot LOSE your Salvation, once you have it.

EVENGELICALS

SOUTHERN BAPTISTS

OTHER BAPTISTS DENOMINATIONS

LUTHERANS

Many of the Independent Churches

BIBLE Churches

Community Churches

Berean Churches

Grace Brethren Churches

Plymouth Brethren Churches

Most Pentecostal Churches

Most Messianic Churches

Calvary Chapel

Wesleyan Churches


  • Anglican/Episcopal - "We are accounted righteous before God, only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith, and not for our own works or deservings. Wherefore, that we are justified by Faith only, is a most wholesome Doctrine..." 39 Articles Anglican Communion
  • Assembly of God - "Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life." AG.org
  • Baptist - "Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, who by His own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer ... There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord." SBC
  • Lutheran - "Faith in Christ is the only way for men to obtain personal reconciliation with God, that is, forgiveness of sins ..." LCMS
  • Methodist - "We are accounted righteous before God only for the merit of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, by faith, and not for our own works or deservings. Wherefore, that we are justified by faith, only..." UMC
  • Presbyterian - "Presbyterians believe God has offered us salvation because of God's loving nature. It is not a right or a privilege to be earned by being "good enough," ... we are all saved solely by the grace of God ...Out of the greatest possible love and compassion God reached out to us and redeemed us through Jesus Christ, the only one who was ever without sin. Through Jesus' death and resurrection God triumphed over sin." PCUSA

Now that is NOT ALL, (I am tired of searching), but it should be enough VALIDATE that Most of the Mainline Churches, DO BELIEVE IN THE ETERNAL SECURITY that CHRIST alone PROVIDED through GRACE through faith.
True, but as for Assemblies of God there I read nothing about eternal security.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,963
3,838
113
oh really, if anti-OSAS people have any ounce of heart at all, they should see that such is false accusations and need to repent from their self-righteousness

if people's heart are Christ-like enough, they should have sympathy to the point where they would want to see even pedophiles redeemed and saved, no matter how hypothetically bad the sinner may be, in the sense that people desire the sense of innocence that feels good, and people have been tainted by sin, got lost in their own ways and, ... God can fix big problems like this. Love the sinner but hate the sin, and practice heart for sinners ...
The problem is that the focus on the Biggie's for us greasy gracers.

So it's ok as a OSAS believer to go out and murder and still be save, to sleep around and and still be saved"

How many belivers have you met that have said its ok to do what we want and still be saved?

How many belivers have you met that say, "We must confess every sin we commit in order be saved, be baptised in order to be saved, forgive every sin against us in order to be saved before we die, do good works in order to be saved?

If we do not they do not quantify a number other than 1 number.
Once.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
The problem is that the focus on the Biggie's for us greasy gracers.

So it's ok as a OSAS believer to go out and murder and still be save, to sleep around and and still be saved"

How many belivers have you met that have said its ok to do what we want and still be saved?

How many belivers have you met that say, "We must confess every sin we commit in order be saved, be baptised in order to be saved, forgive every sin against us in order to be saved before we die, do good works in order to be saved?

If we do not they do not quantify a number other than 1 number.
Once.
Amen brother Bill.

 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
The problem is that the focus on the Biggie's for us greasy gracers.

So it's ok as a OSAS believer to go out and murder and still be save, to sleep around and and still be saved"

How many belivers have you met that have said its ok to do what we want and still be saved?

How many belivers have you met that say, "We must confess every sin we commit in order be saved, be baptised in order to be saved, forgive every sin against us in order to be saved before we die, do good works in order to be saved?

If we do not they do not quantify a number other than 1 number.
Once.
Kill and rape even FBI agents, that's ok, you will still be saved anyway ~said no Christian ever


We must confess every sin we commit in order be saved, <-- thankfully no, or else Apostle Paul would never be saved

same answer for all "no"
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
Kill and rape even FBI agents, that's ok, you will still be saved anyway ~said no Christian ever


We must confess every sin we commit in order be saved, <-- thankfully no, or else Apostle Paul would never be saved

same answer for all "no"
Correct, we as true Christians love righteousness, not sin.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
Q: do we rely on God's power to become more Christ-like or only work by our efforts without God's help on becoming more Christ-like?

that must be the focal point of the debate
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
true christians? eew ~said no sane person ever
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,962
113
Love God and those whom He sends to represent Him on the most personal level
that any of us can ever hope to understand -

Paul, His anointed and most forgiven that we can identify with on our own 'personal level',
for what we have 'done' in our most 'un-holy lives'...

we are all a 'work' in progress', own it and just stop trying to justify yourselves for your
behavior -

if you feel that you are truly 'called-chosen-elected', then 'prove it', 'walk in His Light'...
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
Love God and those whom He sends to represent Him on the most personal level
that any of us can ever hope to understand -

Paul, His anointed and most forgiven that we can identify with on our own 'personal level',
for what we have 'done' in our most 'un-holy lives'...

we are all a 'work' in progress', own it and just stop trying to justify yourselves for your
behavior -

if you feel that you are truly 'called-chosen-elected', then 'prove it', 'walk in His Light'...

well amen

^_^

encouraging words

good reminder
it isnt just about what God has done
and is doing
and will do for us

but a reminder He uses His own as witnesses

and we ought to examine ourself if we are in error or walking according to the spirit

not for our gain

but for His kingdom

how much power do words of truth hold
when they are spoken in vanity?

(i think i understand what you were getting at
... God bless you)

forgive me if i misunderstood)
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,962
113
whoa,

do you all recognize a 'beautiful spirit here'???
if you don't, then you need to do some personal introspection into yourselves...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113
So love is produced in us after salvation is given, because God's love was poured in our hearts the moment the Holy Spirit came into our hearts.

In my mind love = good works (charity).
In my mind love = obedience to the commands of Jesus.

So with a clear conscience I can say that a person that has not love, has not been saved, therefore they cannot lose what they have not been given. Is that right?

Having said that, there will be a great many Christians who will wake up on that dreadful day and find out that they were never saved in the first place and will find themselves in hell. Is that right?


Now you are trying to twist what I said. The Holy Spirit produced CONVICTION (MOURNING) over my utter Sinfulness, and I cried for hours, asking for HIS FORGIVENESS. When I realized that HE HAD FORGIVEN ME, that is when His Love was poured into our hearts, in the same instant it produced LOVE FOR THE LORD, and I surrendered LOVINGLY to JESUS AS LORD meaning MASTER. All of that in the first NIGHT that
HE SAVED ME.

Then the WALK IN CHRIST began, the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS; and I WAS ABLE to start to WALK IN OBEDIENCE, because I LOVED HIM. You will learn to WALK like Christ, becoming more and more like HIM your whole life. NOTHING we do is for SALVATION, that was all accomplished by JESUS CHRIST, bought and PAID FOR. We strive to Walk like CHRIST, because WE LOVE HIM.

Many will think they are SAVED, will find out they NEVER WERE. Many because of Easy Believism, settling for something less than Genuine Salvation. Many because they substituted what they DO FOR HIM, instead of a REAL, SAVED, Personal, Relationship, with HIM as LORD meaning Master, out of LOVE for HIM.

1 Corinthians 2:9 (HCSB)
9 But as it is written: What eye did not see and ear did not hear, and what never entered the human mind— God prepared this for those who love Him.

Matthew 7:22-23 (NLT2)
22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’
23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’


That is the Inner, Personal, Love Relationship with Jesus Christ as LORD that I was talking about. With out it, you will be the MANY, that claim they did all of it for HIM, but lacked that PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.









 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
Now you are trying to twist what I said. The Holy Spirit produced CONVICTION (MOURNING) over my utter Sinfulness, and I cried for hours, asking for HIS FORGIVENESS. When I realized that HE HAD FORGIVEN ME, that is when His Love was poured into our hearts, in the same instant it produced LOVE FOR THE LORD, and I surrendered LOVINGLY to JESUS AS LORD meaning MASTER. All of that in the first NIGHT that HE SAVED ME.

Then the WALK IN CHRIST began, the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS; and I WAS ABLE to start to WALK IN OBEDIENCE, because I LOVED HIM. You will learn to WALK like Christ, becoming more and more like HIM your whole life. NOTHING we do is for SALVATION, that was all accomplished by JESUS CHRIST, bought and PAID FOR. We strive to Walk like CHRIST, because WE LOVE HIM.

Many will think they are SAVED, will find out the NEVER WERE. Many because of Easy Believism, settling for something less than Genuine Salvation. Many because they substituted what they DO FOR HIM, instead of a REAL, SAVED, Personal, Relationship, with HIM as LORD meaning Master, out of LOVE for HIM.

1 Corinthians 2:9 (HCSB)
9 But as it is written: What eye did not see and ear did not hear, and what never entered the human mind— God prepared this for those who love Him.

Matthew 7:22-23 (NLT2)
22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’
23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’


That is the Inner, Personal, Love Relationship with Jesus Christ as LORD that I was talking about. With out it, you will be the MANY, that claim they did all of it for HIM, but lacked that PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.









There is truth in it, but consider none of those people in Matthew 7 ever had salvation
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
whoa,

do you all recognize a 'beautiful spirit here'???
if you don't, then you need to do some personal introspection into yourselves...
You know.....just gonna leave this here...

a. John the Baptist ripped people and called them a generation of vipers and snakes
b. Jesus called them blind, fools, white washed coffins and children of the devil then made a whip and drove them from the temple
c. Elijah mocked and ridiculed them
d. Paul raked them over the coals as we...

Believers need to get over this oooey, gooey, mushy "A-GAPPPPIE" love...emphasis upon the drawn out word.......to use sarcasm, heat, and bluntness does NOT indicate that ONE does not love, lacks a beautiful spirit and or is filled with anger and or hate....
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
235
63
You know.....just gonna leave this here...

a. John the Baptist ripped people and called them a generation of vipers and snakes
b. Jesus called them blind, fools, white washed coffins and children of the devil then made a whip and drove them from the temple
c. Elijah mocked and ridiculed them
d. Paul raked them over the coals as we...

Believers need to get over this oooey, gooey, mushy "A-GAPPPPIE" love...emphasis upon the drawn out word.......to use sarcasm, heat, and bluntness does NOT indicate that ONE does not love, lacks a beautiful spirit and or is filled with anger and or hate....
Amen.