Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,236
4,183
113
A whole 37 hours you say....the first "1st" time I taught through it, it took 2 years of Sunday nights <---just to scan the book......
Question: Were you having people asks questions, during those Teaching sessions? That can account for three quarters of your time.

Dr. John MacArthur, (yes he is related to General MacArthur), was on Sunday mornings Sermons, NO QUESTIONS, and each Sermon was one hour long.
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,559
2,025
113
North Carolina
Dang, since I've stopped posting everyday, so many new faces on here. Some sound familiar from another site that has closed down.

My favorite versus and promise from God: John 3:16
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
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I have no problem that a person who says they are born again, and live the way Christ lived, or at least gives it the good try, and has the kind of faith Jesus had and the kind of charity (includes good works) that Christ had, and this person can believe that they are OASA.

But when a person who one year declares they have been born again, and then in 2 years falls out of love with Jesus and in fact begins to fight against Jesus, this person is not OSAS.
You place yourself in the judgement seat of Jesus Christ. and your fictitious stories are irrelevant.; no eyewitnesses, no proof this ever really could or did happened, Try using real life believable stories.

Stop trying to judge if peoples salvation is real or not real, only God can do that and it is just plain wrong to do.

1Corinthians2:11
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
You place yourself in the judgement seat of Jesus Christ. and your fictitious stories are irrelevant.; no eyewitnesses, no proof this ever really could or did happened, Try using real life believable stories.

Stop trying to judge if peoples salvation is real or not real, only God can do that and it is just plain wrong to do.

1Corinthians2:11
For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Yes, God will finally judge, but we know who are really OSAS and who are not. The problem with OSAS is that there are a lot of Christians who think they are on the OSAS path and are not. That will end up on the head of the pastor that taught them, don't worry, you have confessed the Lord Jesus, you have had the Holy Spirit come to you and indwell in you, and so now God has you in his hands and no matter what you do from the second you believed, you will have Eternal Life with God and Jesus.

This is a dangerous doctrine, because billions will not have EL because they were not really saved in the first place, but because of the doctrine of OSAS, they will do little or nothing to change their life and have the Holy Spirit actually come upon them and really save them. Therefore because of the doctrine they continue to behave the same way all through their lives, and then when it is too late, they find out the cold hard fact, that they were never saved in the first place. Jesus says, ...I never knew you. Sad ending.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
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Quote:
"I'm a former Catholic, but I am not an anti-Catholic. I have made it my aim to 'speak the truth in love' because I have a wonderful message to share."

Hi Metternich, your link was a good read from a, "Former Catholic", does this mean you are a former Catholic as well? Also the Apostle John writes that yes we can know that we have "eternal life" today.

1John5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so "that you may know that you have eternal life."
I am a devout Catholic trying to understand the multitude of beliefs of my Protestant brothers and sisters. The link I referenced gave all the right verses to support OSAS but then they said that "many" have false assurance. It seems to me that Bible Christians are no more sure of their salvation than I am. I cannot know what will happen in the future. Suppose I get involved in adulterous relationship and we get married. I think the link author would say I had a false assurance of salvation and was headed for hell. Certainly the Catholic Church would say I was headed to hell.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,236
4,183
113
Dang, since I've stopped posting everyday, so many new faces on here. Some sound familiar from another site that has closed down.

My favorite versus and promise from God: John 3:16

So where did they all come from? Most of those new names I do not recognize, but HEY, WELCOME EVERYONE.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,236
4,183
113
Yes, God will finally judge, but we know who are really OSAS and who are not. The problem with OSAS is that there are a lot of Christians who think they are on the OSAS path and are not. That will end up on the head of the pastor that taught them, don't worry, you have confessed the Lord Jesus, you have had the Holy Spirit come to you and indwell in you, and so now God has you in his hands and no matter what you do from the second you believed, you will have Eternal Life with God and Jesus.

This is a dangerous doctrine, because billions will not have EL because they were not really saved in the first place, but
because of the doctrine of OSAS, they will do little or nothing to change their life and have the Holy Spirit actually come upon them and really save them. Therefore because of the doctrine they continue to behave the same way all through their lives, and then when it is too late, they find out the cold hard fact, that they were never saved in the first place. Jesus says, ...I never knew you. Sad ending.



Oh, I thought you left, is why I have not put you on my IGNORE LIST. YOU DO NOT YET UNDERSTAND OUR DOCTRINE. I still think you are ONLY repeating the FALSE IDEA about OSAS that you WERE TAUGHT by a teacher that KNOWS LESS THAN YOU DO. So you KEEP perpetuating the LIE about our Beliefs. You see what I changed to RED in your post? THAT IS A LIE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ABOUT OUR BELIEFS.

I have told you this over and over again. THAT is NOT what Born Again Christians that BELIEVE in OSAS, actually BELIEVE. So why DO YOU KEEP TELLING THE SAME LIE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. You have this FINAL, ONE Chance only, and then if you return with the same old FALSE TEACHING of our BELIEFS, I will have to put you on my IGNORE LIST.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,715
113
People don't realize the word demonic in,
Greek means "hovering over to DIRECT the pleasures of"

So yes, they exist, the fly (hover) over people to direct them with pleasures
STILL waiting for "the verse" and "the Greek" that "proves" the above. All I got was a can't answer because I'm tired response...nothing but crickets since.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I am a devout Catholic trying to understand the multitude of beliefs of my Protestant brothers and sisters. The link I referenced gave all the right verses to support OSAS but then they said that "many" have false assurance. It seems to me that Bible Christians are no more sure of their salvation than I am. I cannot know what will happen in the future. Suppose I get involved in adulterous relationship and we get married. I think the link author would say I had a false assurance of salvation and was headed for hell. Certainly the Catholic Church would say I was headed to hell.
Remember Jonah, he was headed in the opposite direction that God told him to go. And so it took a great fish that God provided to bring salvation to Jonah. Your mind can create endless, "what if type stories", but these fictitious stories are all in vain.

Our salvation is predestined by God from before time began. There is nothing that will divert the will of God. You cannot "run from God or His plan for your life." also look at the life of the Apostle Paul, or King David, just to give you a few examples.

I just posted these verses a while ago. Focus on our Savior Jesus and forget about dwelling on the "what ifs"
Did King David sin, yes of course he did, but "he was a man after God's own heart, be like King David and forget the fictitious, "what if's.", God bless!

God's Plan of Eternal Salvation;

Romans8:29,30
29)
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30) And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,369
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Question: Were you having people asks questions, during those Teaching sessions? That can account for three quarters of your time.

Dr. John MacArthur, (yes he is related to General MacArthur), was on Sunday mornings Sermons, NO QUESTIONS, and each Sermon was one hour long.
No questions..me teaching 1.5 hours straight each service....
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
Remember Jonah, he was headed in the opposite direction that God told him to go. And so it took a great fish that God provided to bring salvation to Jonah. Your mind can create endless, "what if type stories", but these fictitious stories are all in vain.

Our salvation is predestined by God from before time began. There is nothing that will divert the will of God. You cannot "run from God or His plan for your life." also look at the life of the Apostle Paul, or King David, just to give you a few examples.

I just posted these verses a while ago. Focus on our Savior Jesus and forget about dwelling on the "what ifs"
Did King David sin, yes of course he did, but "he was a man after God's own heart, be like King David and forget the fictitious, "what if's.", God bless!

God's Plan of Eternal Salvation;

Romans8:29,30
29)
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30) And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
I do believe that the elect are predestined for heaven. I do not believe the repprobate are predestined for hell. They go there because of their own fault. I would really like to hear your story if that is not asking too much. How old were you? What doctrines did you first have doubts about? Or was it something that first attracted you to Bible Christianity?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,177
3,953
113
This is a dangerous doctrine, because billions will not have EL because they were not really saved in the first place, but because of the doctrine of OSAS, they will do little or nothing to change their life and have the Holy Spirit actually come upon them and really save them. Therefore because of the doctrine they continue to behave the same way all through their lives, and then when it is too late, they find out the cold hard fact, that they were never saved in the first place. Jesus says, ...I never knew you. Sad ending.
You do realise that you are bearing false witness here about people in this thread who believe in OSAS, or ES.

Point out any post on this thread by people who believe in ES that promote what you are accusing them off.

If you cannot then please stop saying it.
In your real life experiences how many people have you heard preach what you say they do?
If so where so?
If you have then do not allow a bad apple to spoil the crop.

So please quote anyone here who says we can do what we when we place so called faith in Jesus, that we can continue to behave the same way after coming to Jesus.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,270
113
J...,

Didn't say that at all...why the spin...to you being disingenuous ?
Deal with scriptures. The Bible tells us Christ gave His life on the Cross for forgivenss of our sins...you know that.

It is ours to comply with receiving such great graceful forgiveness requirements.
What i think regarding "works'..is...BECAUSE we love Jesus we WANT to do what pleases Him and be obediant...we cant DO anything to EARN His love..grace and gift of salvation..we'll never be GOOD enough although we can strive to live a life pleasing to God. The "fruit of the spirit" (patience...long suffering etc) comes AFTER accepting Jesus as Lord ..its somthing God nurtures in us along the way via trials..circumstance etc. GOD doesnt NEED us for anything..He LOVES us so much that He WANTS us (freedom of choice) to be obedeiant because we'll be better people if we do...:)
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I do believe that the elect are predestined for heaven. I do not believe the repprobate are predestined for hell. They go there because of their own fault. I would really like to hear your story if that is not asking too much. How old were you? What doctrines did you first have doubts about? Or was it something that first attracted you to Bible Christianity?
I'm just a garden variety sinner, who was very lost and alone, and I called out to God to save me and He did. No thunder and lightning just the peace of God surrounding me.

Later I was baptize and became a member of Grace Community Church in Sun valley, Ca. Pastor John MacArthur. I spent ten years there in the music ministry and I would study and read my bible as much as I possibly could. God gives us all a measure of faith and as my faith in Jesus grew I had many questions but never doubted my faith in God. I left my life of sin and never looked back. A simple Testimony, I am 69yrs old now, a Vietnam Vet and I was 28ys old when I was born again.

God bless!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,177
3,953
113
What i think regarding "works'..is...BECAUSE we love Jesus we WANT to do what pleases Him and be obediant...we cant DO anything to EARN His love..grace and gift of salvation..we'll never be GOOD enough although we can strive to live a life pleasing to God. The "fruit of the spirit" (patience...long suffering etc) comes AFTER accepting Jesus as Lord ..its somthing God nurtures in us along the way via trials..circumstance etc. GOD doesnt NEED us for anything..He LOVES us so much that He WANTS us (freedom of choice) to be obedeiant because we'll be better people if we do...:)
And as he works in us, and we manifest fruit people see why walk with them.
Because we love them, just as Jesus does.

We show our love because we obedient and we are obedient because we know his love for us.

We are not obedient to be loved, if we are then we do not truly no his love.
If we are obedient to be loved then we have a fear of not being loved.
But we know there is no fear in love, and his perfect love casts out fear.
We love because he first loved us.

He is the same today as he was yesterday, as he will be today as he will be tomorrow.

Jeremiah 31:3
3 The Lord has appeared of old to me, saying:
“Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.

Hebrews 13:8
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Jesus himself said that God loves us as much as he loves him

John 17:20-23
20 “I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message.21 I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.
22 “I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one.23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,260
113
I do believe that the elect are predestined for heaven. I do not believe the repprobate are predestined for hell. They go there because of their own fault. I would really like to hear your story if that is not asking too much. How old were you? What doctrines did you first have doubts about? Or was it something that first attracted you to Bible Christianity?
There is no double predestination, God will reveal Himself to those who honestly seek Him, and there is hell to pay for those who reject His son. Even the "Wayfaring Stranger", needs not to error.

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed; the offspring of the wicked will perish.

God bless!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,369
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You do realise that you are bearing false witness here about people in this thread who believe in OSAS, or ES.

Point out any post on this thread by people who believe in ES that promote what you are accusing them off.

If you cannot then please stop saying it.
In your real life experiences how many people have you heard preach what you say they do?
If so where so?
If you have then do not allow a bad apple to spoil the crop.

So please quote anyone here who says we can do what we when we place so called faith in Jesus, that we can continue to behave the same way after coming to Jesus.
He blathers on quite regularly and falsely accuses, embellishes, changes what we say etc.....one reason I rarely engage him...no honesty and flat refuses to state what denomination he is.....very, very deceptive....
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
There is no double predestination, God will reveal Himself to those who honestly seek Him, and there is hell to pay for those who reject His son. Even the "Wayfaring Stranger", needs not to error.

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed; the offspring of the wicked will perish.

God bless!
You are right. I do not know what I was thinking when I typed that.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
I'm just a garden variety sinner, who was very lost and alone, and I called out to God to save me and He did. No thunder and lightning just the peace of God surrounding me.

Later I was baptize and became a member of Grace Community Church in Sun valley, Ca. Pastor John MacArthur. I spent ten years there in the music ministry and I would study and read my bible as much as I possibly could. God gives us all a measure of faith and as my faith in Jesus grew I had many questions but never doubted my faith in God. I left my life of sin and never looked back. A simple Testimony, I am 69yrs old now, a Vietnam Vet and I was 28ys old when I was born again.

God bless!
How old were you and how much of a Catholic education did you have?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,369
113
STILL waiting for "the verse" and "the Greek" that "proves" the above. All I got was a can't answer because I'm tired response...nothing but crickets since.
Good luck............after numerous bags of popcorn and a case of coke it becomes all to obvious an answer is not forthcoming.....