Not By Works

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Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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Philippians 2 : 8

8 And being found in appearance as a man, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF and became OBEDIENT--even death on a cross!

1 Peter 2 : 21

21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS

John 13 : 15-17

15 I have set you an example that YOU SHOULD DO AS I HAVE DONE FOR YOU

16 I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed IF YOU DO THEM.

1 John 2 : 6

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

hebrews 5: 7-9

7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent SUBMISSION.

8 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered

9 and, once made perfect, HE BECAME THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Ephesians 5 : 6

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.

Jude 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. THEY CLAIM TO KNOW GOD, BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good.

James 2 : 26

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT DEEDS IS DEAD.

Ephesians 5:14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: “WAKE UP, O sleeper, RISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ will shine on you.”

Romans 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW than when we FIRST BELIEVED.
 

mailmandan

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And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
So who obeys Him? Believers or unbelievers? I often hear works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) cite this verse in their efforts to try and support salvation by works. :cautious:

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on the merits of their works (Matthew 7:22-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
 
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So who obeys Him? Believers or unbelievers? I often hear works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics and Mormons) cite this verse in their efforts to try and support salvation by works. :cautious:

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping (guarding, observing, watching over) His commandments and practicing righteousness and not sin (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on their works (Matthew 7:22-23). *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
Point in case, Saul, a pharisee of all pharisees in his mind (righteous believer who obeyed the law stringently)

to Paul, the as he put it "chief of all sinners"
 

mailmandan

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If you have hope for something, do you have it?
We do not yet have our glorified bodies and we are not yet in the presence of the Lord in heaven on earth, but believers have everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but have passed from death into life (John 5:24). Believers have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification - Romans 5:1) even though we have not yet been saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification - Romans 8:23).

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. (y)

If you are hoping to receive eternal life based on the merits of your works/performance, then you have a misplaced hope. :(
 
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We do not yet have our glorified bodies and we are not yet in the presence of the Lord in heaven on earth, but believers have everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but have passed from death into life (John 5:24). Believers have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification - Romans 5:1) even though we have not yet been saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification - Romans 8:23).

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. (y)

If you are hoping to receive eternal life based on the merits of your works/performance, then you have a misplaced hope. :(
if our hope is based on a merit system. how can one have "hope" unless they think they are better than they really are? Their hope is misplaced in self. not God. That's no hope at all. It also states God is not able.
 

mailmandan

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d...,

I believe you mean well but, we must abide by scriptures. You are wrong.
Here are some that proves the point...there are many more;
  1. Enduring to the End - ensign - lds.org
    www.lds.org/ensign/1993/10/enduring-to-the-end
    Thus, to endure is to continue in the path we adopted at baptism by keeping our commitments to Christ, until the end of our mortal life. Usually the scriptures link “enduring to the end” with keeping one’s covenants with Christ.
  2. Matthew 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will ...
    biblehub.com/matthew/24-13.htm
    Matthew 24:13 Verse (Click for ... But whoever will persevere until the end will have life. GOD'S WORD® Translation But the person who endures to the end will be saved. New American Standard 1977 “But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved. Jubilee Bible 2000 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. King James 2000 Bible But he that shall endure unto the ...

  3. Tt
If you are a Mormon, that would explain a lot about your "works based" false gospel. Those who "endure to the end" (demonstrative evidence) of those who have been saved through faith and are truly born again. Not to be confused with enduring to the end in a false religious system. Genuine believers are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5) and are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1).
 

Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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IS SANCTIFICATION A PART OF SALVATION?

Romans 6:15-23 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so NOW offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap LEADS TO HOLINESS, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

THESE VERSES ABOVE CLEARLY SAYS THAT OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE.

OUR LORD JESUS SAID;

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE,(ref: john 14:6) OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:21-24 WHOEVER HAS MY COMMANDS AND OBEYS THEM, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “IF ANYONE LOVES ME, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING.

My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHINGS. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

AND BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER HE GAVE HIS DISCIPLES THESE COMMANDS;

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU . And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

THESE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS ARE TRUE AND IS THE TRUTH.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

WILL ANYONE BE SANCTIFIED WITHOUT OBEYING THE TRUTH?

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

DOES THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION TEACHES US TO DISOBEY BY SAYING THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES, VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS?

THAT EVEN OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION SINCE "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?

IF SANCTIFICATION IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...

WHY WAIT FOR A SAVIOR?

(hebrews 5:7-9)

IF OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...

HERE'S WHAT THE "WORD OF TRUTH", "THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION" TEACHES US...

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ

was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time,

not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.

Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all.

Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE

YET we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For

WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.

THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED

ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM

SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE

JUDGMENT ANYMORE?

Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN

MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your

souls.

SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH

WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it

is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them:

“YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,

‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING

for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that

you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”

JESUS SAID;

“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15

…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17

“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not

Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we

will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my

teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john

14:21-24

THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A

WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY

FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered

and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO

OBEY HIM.

A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command

but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus

Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for,

but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both

the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED

WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are

ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS

NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is

how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND

FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE

SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17)

WE HONOR AND

GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS

GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..

(john 15:6-17)

Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good

fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the

resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil

or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you

greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.

These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though

refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when

Jesus Christ is revealed.

2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and

to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and

to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone

does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed

from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I

know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up!

Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT

AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at

what time I will come to you.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what

he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap

destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life..

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes

from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)

“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 
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You are correct in stating we are saved by (His) grace. However you can Not take just one or a couple of passages. "Faith without works is dead" See if you except Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will obey his commandments. "Pick up your cross and follow me" "a good tree bears good fruits a bad, bad fruits" "Tell me your religion and I will SHOW you mine"

No your works will not save you. Faith and grace saves you. If you are saved you will bear fruits. Action is required!
 
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You are correct in stating we are saved by (His) grace. However you can Not take just one or a couple of passages. "Faith without works is dead" See if you except Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will obey his commandments. "Pick up your cross and follow me" "a good tree bears good fruits a bad, bad fruits" "Tell me your religion and I will SHOW you mine"

No your works will not save you. Faith and grace saves you. If you are saved you will bear fruits. Action is required!
Look at the two things I highlighted, they contradict each other, how do you resolve that issue?
 
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Yes. That’s the point.

If we have faith in Christ for salvation then we have the hope of receiving the salvation of our soul.


JPT
You have it backwards, Faith is the substance of things hoped for. By your words, you are saying hope is the substance of things we have faith in

Receiving the salvation of our soul is our hope. If we have assurance in our hearts it WILL HAPPEN. Then we have faith.

As paul said, in the hope of eternal life, which God who can not lie, promised before time began.

Without assurance, there is no hope. without hope. there is no faith.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Jesus's words. If you do not bear good fruit you will be cut off and cast into the fire. Read just Jesus' words in the bible and see for yourself what he says.
Not bearing fruit is descriptive of a bad tree/unbeliever, not a genuine believer/good tree.
 
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Not bearing fruit is descriptive of a bad tree/unbeliever, not a genuine believer/good tree.
You will know them by their fruits. I'm sorry but you can't just sit on your rump and do nothing. Salvation came at a cost. It was not free. Innocent blood was shed. If one truly believes they will obey!!! " if you love me you will keep my commandments. So you are telling me God wants you to be a bench warmer? That's not what they word says.
 
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Jesus's words. If you do not bear good fruit you will be cut off and cast into the fire. Read just Jesus' words in the bible and see for yourself what he says.

No it says your works will be cut off and cast into the fire. all of our works will be tried by fire, if it persists, it will be rewarded, if not it will be burnt, but we ourselves will be saved as through fire.

Scripture can not contraidict, And you saying we are saved not by works, but are required to work also contradicts.
 
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You will know them by their fruits. I'm sorry but you can't just sit on your rump and do nothing. Salvation came at a cost. It was not free. Innocent blood was shed. If one truly believes they will obey!!! " if you love me you will keep my commandments. So you are telling me God wants you to be a bench warmer? That's not what they word says.
WHo is saying this? I personally get sick of this strawman argument that people think it is ok to get saved and sit on your rump
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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Point in case, Saul, a pharisee of all pharisees in his mind (righteous believer who obeyed the law stringently)

to Paul, the as he put it "chief of all sinners"
Saul is a perfect example of how religious doctrines and traditions deceive the masses. He, and the entire "Jews religion" partook or condoned murdering innocent people for telling the truth about the Word, believed righteousness was gained by the Pharisees version of animal sacrifice, killed the Prophets God sent them for centuries, and even though the scriptures read each Sabbath exposed their "Commandments of Men", they couldn't see it.

He explains why they couldn't see it in Romans 1.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

It's interesting to note there were people who were not snared by the Mainstream preaching of their time. Zechariahs and Elisabeth, the wise men, Mary, Simeon, Anna, I'm sure there were more.

These knew Jesus when He came to them, Saul and the Pharisees did not. There was a good reason why the Word which became Flesh didn't manifest Himself to Saul and the Pharisees, but did to Zechariahs and a few others. I think Jesus explains it best in John 14.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

I think this promise is how Abraham knew Jesus as well.

"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.