Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
I wonder how many here believe they maintain their own salvation through an on-going effort......rather than recieve salvation by grace through faith..... as a free gift..... like the bible says


from the out of context verses
and horrible misunderstandings i see every time i pop on
it seems like a lot of people are lost


but i love to come on and see God using His children to stand against these false doctrine and shine light on the truth in love



blessings to you guys/girls
Id say ALOT McGee , of course they say its " Salvation by Grace thru Faith " , then there is always a BUT
The salvation they believe in is always conditional , the salvation I have , in this, the Age of Grace , was freely given to me without any conditions attached . Now just watch , I'll get the line " you just want to live in sin " which is the opposite of what I believe
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,380
113
Rather that revile and say things against me falsely, couldn’t pick out a specific point I made that you disagree with and explain why you disagree?





Of course Salvation can not be earned.

We are helpless and in bondage to the sin that dwells in our carnal nature, with Satan as our lord and master, as a sinner; unbeliever.


It is through God's great mercy and love for us that He calls us to repent; to turn to Him, by turning away from Satan as out lord.


  • Here is the Gospel message that Jesus Himself taught to Paul on the road to Damascus -
  • to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


Here is the Gospel message that Paul tells king Agrippa that he proclaims -


  • but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

If we turn away from Satan as lord, by confessing Jesus as Lord, then as our Lord, we are to obey Him, if we believe the Gopel.



Could you tell us in your own words, why a born again Christian who is empowered by the Spirit of God, would want to disobey God, in which they show hatred toward God by not obeying His commandments?


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


  • this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

His Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, empowers us to walk in the truth, and obey the truth, and speak the truth, which is loving God and loving our neighbor.


His word, His message, His doctrine is about love: Loving God, and loving His children.



  • “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

  • He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.


Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. John 14:23

  • If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. John 14:23

  • He who does not love Me does not keep My words

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5



If we steal from our brother, is that love or hate?

If we covet our brothers things, is that love or hate?

If we commit adultery with our brother wife, is that love or hate?


20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20




JPT
Any gospel that teaches salvation can be lost, forfeit, gained or maintained by any human effort, work, religious deed and or is not eternally given as an irrevocable gift is false, contrary to the bible and NOT OF GOD....end of story....irrevocable means exactly that and eternal life is given freely by grace through faith and verb tense PROVES A CONTINUING RESULT FROM A PAST COMPLETED ACTION....regardless of any and all who deny this truth...

Whatsoever God does is everlasting...nothing ADDED nor TAKEN AWAY AND HE DOES THIS SO MEN MAY FEAR HIM....

Eternal life by the single act of faith
Eternal death by the the single act of rejection
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,380
113
Id say ALOT McGee , of course they say its " Salvation by Grace thru Faith " , then there is always a BUT
The salvation they believe in is always conditional , the salvation I have , in this, the Age of Grace , was freely given to me without any conditions attached . Now just watch , I'll get the line " you just want to live in sin " which is the opposite of what I believe
Exactly....any salvation that must be maintained by men is no salvation of or from God.....!!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,261
113
Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?

JPT
Now here comes the wresting of scripture to make the bible say what he wants it to say. It follows suit that if your interpretation is wrong so too will your application be wrong which can have a negative effect on many people.

Exegesis: the correct way to interpret the bible
Eisegesis: the wrong way to interpret the bible

Definition:
Eisegesis
. ... While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,449
4,353
113
I wonder how many here believe they maintain their own salvation through an on-going effort......rather than recieve salvation by grace through faith..... as a free gift..... like the bible says


from the out of context verses
and horrible misunderstandings i see every time i pop on
it seems like a lot of people are lost


but i love to come on and see God using His children to stand against these false doctrine and shine light on the truth in love



blessings to you guys/girls

<><.🕇.><>

Nothing new under the Sun.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (HCSB)
9 What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun.

Matthew 7:13-23 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.
15 “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
16 You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’



I am glad you receive encouragement from some of us.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,261
113
Id say ALOT McGee , of course they say its " Salvation by Grace thru Faith " , then there is always a BUT
The salvation they believe in is always conditional , the salvation I have , in this, the Age of Grace , was freely given to me without any conditions attached . Now just watch , I'll get the line " you just want to live in sin " which is the opposite of what I believe
Thank you ljs for pointing out that we live in the "Age of Grace", hopefully some of the people who would add works to their salvation will take notice.

Genesis15:6
6 And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,154
541
113
Any gospel that teaches salvation can be lost, forfeit, gained or maintained by any human effort, work, religious deed and or is not eternally given as an irrevocable gift is false, contrary to the bible and NOT OF GOD....end of story....irrevocable means exactly that and eternal life is given freely by grace through faith and verb tense PROVES A CONTINUING RESULT FROM A PAST COMPLETED ACTION....regardless of any and all who deny this truth...

Whatsoever God does is everlasting...nothing ADDED nor TAKEN AWAY AND HE DOES THIS SO MEN MAY FEAR HIM....

Eternal life by the single act of faith
Eternal death by the the single act of rejection

Please copy and paste from my post what points and verse you disagree with, so we can discuss.


WE all have opinions, so by you just stating your opinion with no scriptures, makes no sense.


A sheep who wanders away from Him, because they stopped hearing and obeying His voice, will become lost.


Jesus taught this very plainly.

I know you have heard of the prodigal son and the parable of the lost sheep.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


  • Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

  • likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents
    than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.


The same language is used to describe the prodigal son.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
Luke 15:32


  • How do you define “lost”?



JPT
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,154
541
113
Now here comes the wresting of scripture to make the bible say what he wants it to say. It follows suit that if your interpretation is wrong so too will your application be wrong which can have a negative effect on many people.

Exegesis: the correct way to interpret the bible
Eisegesis: the wrong way to interpret the bible

Definition:
Eisegesis
. ... While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.

I agree with everything you posted here.



Now can you please answer the very simple question:


Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?


It's a yes or no question.



JPT
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,468
4,085
113
I agree with everything you posted here.



Now can you please answer the very simple question:


Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?


It's a yes or no question.



JPT
Is it just a yes and no question?

What determines belief/believing?
What is it believing in that saves us?

What ultimately saves us?
What saved the thief on the cross and who saved him?

Is there a difference between saving faith and belief or believing.

Evangelist Lester Roloff put it this way... “Real repentance is putting your trust in Jesus Christ so you will not live like that anymore.” Departing from a sinful lifestyle is a matter of appreciation for what the Lord has done for us, of obeying God as His child, and not as a condition of saving-faith.

You do say and have said that we are not saved by works but by faith but do come across as saying that we must continue to do works to be saved.
So the focus is on works and not faith.

Correct me if I have got that wrong.

So does genuine saving faith save or by believing that our works save?

I think you think that works do not save but that the issue a believer can lose their salvation and no longer do works.

Is that a correct?
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
Thank you ljs for pointing out that we live in the "Age of Grace", hopefully some of the people who would add works to their salvation will take notice.

Genesis15:6
6 And he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Its amazing isnt it TruthTalk , I actually dont think alot of posters on this thread even realize it !
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
That is fine, when the situation calls for it, but remember, there are other instances the opposite is called for.

Matthew 3:7 (HCSB)
7 When he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the place of his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?


Matthew 12:34 (HCSB)
34 Brood of vipers! How can you speak good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.


Matthew 23:31-33 (HCSB)
31 You, therefore, testify against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!
33 “Snakes! Brood of vipers! How can you escape being condemned to hell?



John 8:42-47 (HCSB)
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I came from God and I am here. For I didn’t come on My own, but He sent Me.
43 Why don’t you understand what I say? Because you cannot listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
46 Who among you can convict Me of sin? If I tell the truth, why don’t you believe Me?
47 The one who is from God listens to God’s words. This is why you don’t listen, because you are not from God.”



Could it be, that you are from a LOVE ONLY, easy believism Church that is at best, a borderline FALSE GOSPEL; is why warning people about HELL is foreign to you?
Wow VCO, you drove your point right through his heart. He talks of peace and love and you scream FALSE GOSPEL. You need to read about some people to people skills.

When I said at first that I thought good works and love were part of the salvation process, you made me feel like I was satan incarnated. You really need to be kinder as you articulate your position. At least on this forum as we are all believer in Christ, and would die for our witness of him.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
That is fine, when the situation calls for it, but remember, there are other instances the opposite is called for.

Matthew 3:7 (HCSB)
7 When he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to the place of his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?


Matthew 12:34 (HCSB)
34 Brood of vipers! How can you speak good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.


Matthew 23:31-33 (HCSB)
31 You, therefore, testify against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ sins!
33 “Snakes! Brood of vipers! How can you escape being condemned to hell?



John 8:42-47 (HCSB)
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, because I came from God and I am here. For I didn’t come on My own, but He sent Me.
43 Why don’t you understand what I say? Because you cannot listen to My word.
44 You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.
45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
46 Who among you can convict Me of sin? If I tell the truth, why don’t you believe Me?
47 The one who is from God listens to God’s words. This is why you don’t listen, because you are not from God.”



Could it be, that you are from a LOVE ONLY, easy believism Church that is at best, a borderline FALSE GOSPEL; is why warning people about HELL is foreign to you?
here's easy believism

listen to the song and be saved
the song "if you want to, I can save you"

 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
63
I agree with everything you posted here.



Now can you please answer the very simple question:


Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing?


It's a yes or no question.



JPT
I am interested in TT's answer to this question too. TT are you going to answer. VCO, EG, decon, ljs, BillG?

Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing? Simple yes or no?
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
310
443
63
I am interested in TT's answer to this question too. TT are you going to answer. VCO, EG, decon, ljs, BillG?

Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing? Simple yes or no?
I did answer , look up
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I am interested in TT's answer to this question too. TT are you going to answer. VCO, EG, decon, ljs, BillG?

Do you believe that salvation is conditional upon believing? Simple yes or no?

i believe salvation is GIVEN

to ALL who have a genuine faith by the grace of God


(btw, genuine faith endures.... and is followed by the indwelling Holy spirit and the chastening of God)

and never leads to unbelief
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,154
541
113
Is it just a yes and no question?

What determines belief/believing?
What is it believing in that saves us?

What ultimately saves us?
What saved the thief on the cross and who saved him?

Is there a difference between saving faith and belief or believing.

Evangelist Lester Roloff put it this way... “Real repentance is putting your trust in Jesus Christ so you will not live like that anymore.” Departing from a sinful lifestyle is a matter of appreciation for what the Lord has done for us, of obeying God as His child, and not as a condition of saving-faith.

Jesus said - lest they should believe and be saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Those in the first group heard the Gospel and did not believe, and therefore, were not saved.





JPT