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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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It is a concept that is fully functional under OSAS. If a person is saved and then turns from Jesus and in fact hates him, the doctrine of OSAS by definition and regardless of his hate, that man must be saved by Jesus into his Kingdom.
Fully functional? A truly born believer will not hate Jesus we love our Savior.
A non believer will not be in Jesus Kingdom and he can hate Jesus all he wants.

Your argument makes no sense, it is a fictional made up story just like always, boring.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN. 14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


A SERVANT OF GOD HAS A DUTY TO OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. SERVANTS WERE PREPARED FOR WORKS OF SERVICE FOR THE EDIFICATION OF THE CHURCH


11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.


28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

(Ref: romans 12:1-8)


16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


WE ARE SERVANTS OF WHOM WE OBEY.


EVERY MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST ARE SERVANTS OF GOD WHOM THEY OBEY.


CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF HIS BODY WHICH IS THE CHURCH...eph 5:23, col 1:18


IF A BROTHER DELIBERATELY SINS, ARE WE NOT TO EXPEL HIM?


26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore PUT AWAY FROM AMONG YOURSELVES THAT WICKED PERSON.


21 for if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE. 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE in his goodness: OTHERWISE, THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF.


30And CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKÑESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.(Ref: matthèw 25:45-46)


9And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and CAST INTO THE FIRE.


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF GOD UPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.


14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ shall give thee light.


11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: FOR NOW IS OUR SALVATION NEARER THAN WHEN WE (FIRST) BELIEVED.



1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, AND ART DEAD. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.



…”BECAUSE THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY, AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.”(isaiah 5:20-24)


3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4God forbid: yea, LET GOD BE TRUE, but every man a liar; as it is written,

That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings,
And mightest overcome when thou art judged...AMEN
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Fully functional? A truly born believer will not hate Jesus we love our Savior.
A non believer will not be in Jesus Kingdom and he can hate Jesus all he wants.

Your argument makes no sense, it is a fictional made up story just like always, boring.
oops, I meant to say, truly born "again" believer
 
Oct 31, 2015
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LOL:ROFL:


wow... you stretch pretty hard to make them silly strawmen of yours ben

No strecth, just biblical fact.



4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? James 4:4-5



  • Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.


Will Born again Christians who live a worldly lifestyle, be welcome in the kingdom of God on that Day when we stand before Him and are judged according to our deeds?


  • eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8




JPT
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,291
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It is a concept that is fully functional under OSAS. If a person is saved and then turns from Jesus and in fact hates him, the doctrine of OSAS by definition and regardless of his hate, that man must be saved by Jesus into his Kingdom.
Ben, are you foolish ENOUGH to ignore EVERYTHING that True OSAS Believers have been TELLING YOU? That concept is ONLY IN YOUR MIND. I have told you at least three times, and several others have told you the same thing, that ONLY YOU include those that turn from JESUS as supposed True Believers. I REPEAT ONLY YOU INCLUDE THEM AS SUPPOSED TRUE BELIEVERS. THEY NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS, OR THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED IN THE FAITH.

2 John 1:1-2 (ESV)
1 The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2 because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:


THE TRUTH THAT THEY ABANDONED, PROVES THEY WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN!


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us;
for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


NOW that is what every true BELIEVE in OSAS BELIEVES,

And it does not matter that YOU HEARD DIFFERENTLY, because the statement
that you proclaimed was done in pure IGNORANCE. Do you want the TRUTH
about OSAS, then ASK US, or are you Comfortable to be proclaiming a LIE?



Yes, I let you out of the BOX. But with foolish posts, VOID of even an inkling of TRUTH,
that only proves you are only reiterating a falsehood about our Beliefs; it is awful tempting
to put you right back into that IGNORE BOX.



1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:3-6 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 You rejoice in this, though now for a short time you have had to struggle in various trials
 
Dec 12, 2013
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actually what dcontroversal is talking about is that
when saved, God gives people a new nature, and that new nature grows as the old nature shrink, and eventually, the new nature will ascend to heaven, and the strawman benhur presented will not happen in heaven.

the new nature is not fully grown, and there's minimal signs of the new nature, which is why the debate and the constant doubting of other party's salvation rages on
Amen.....his faux imaginary worldly views and scenarios never happen....we have a born again spirit that has been born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....these workers for, pharisees and cainologists testify by their very mouth that they are not born from above by incorruptable seed!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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no........




the words you tried to impute to dcon sound no less ridiculous than they did a moment ago


and falling back on the second strawman that has already been torn down more than once doesnt help your cause


not one who is SAVED (from a just punishment through the grace of God) ends up in the lake of fire


Gods gifts are without repentance
Amen bro....irrevocable.....!!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Ben, are you foolish ENOUGH to ignore EVERYTHING that True OSAS Believers have been TELLING YOU? That concept is ONLY IN YOUR MIND. I have told you at least three times, and several others have told you the same thing, that ONLY YOU include those that turn from JESUS as supposed True Believers. I REPEAT ONLY YOU INCLUDE THEM AS SUPPOSED TRUE BELIEVERS. THEY NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS, OR THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED IN THE FAITH.

2 John 1:1-2 (ESV)
1 The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2 because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever:


THE TRUTH THAT THEY ABANDONED, PROVES THEY WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN!


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us;
for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


NOW that is what every true BELIEVE in OSAS BELIEVES,

And it does not matter that YOU HEARD DIFFERENTLY, because the statement
that you proclaimed was done in pure IGNORANCE. Do you want the TRUTH
about OSAS, then ASK US, or are you Comfortable to be proclaiming a LIE?



Yes, I let you out of the BOX. But with foolish posts, VOID of even an inkling of TRUTH,
that only proves you are only reiterating a falsehood about our Beliefs; it is awful tempting
to put you right back into that IGNORE BOX.



1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:3-6 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 You rejoice in this, though now for a short time you have had to struggle in various trials
The lost and what words mean to them

a. Eternal = temporary
b. Irrevocable = can be changed, reversable
c. Kept by the power of God = tossed away
d. SAVED to the uttermost = partially saved
e. Perfect tense Greek verb = thrown under the bus
f. I will never leave thee or forsake thee = Jesus lied and will leave and forsake thee
g. Nothing can separate us from the love of God = God's word is false and something can

etc.....

These workers for, cainologists and Pharisees that throw Jesus, his promises, his words his power undwr the bus equate God to a sniviling liar that cannot keep his word and they will pay the price.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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IS SANCTIFICATION A PART OF SALVATION?
Romans 6:15-23 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so NOW offer them in slavery to RIGHTEOUSNESS LEADING TO HOLINESS. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap LEADS TO HOLINESS, and THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
THESE VERSES ABOVE CLEARLY SAYS THAT OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE.
OUR LORD JESUS SAID;
Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE,(ref: john 14:6) OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.
John 14:21-24 WHOEVER HAS MY COMMANDS AND OBEYS THEM, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “IF ANYONE LOVES ME, HE WILL OBEY MY TEACHING.
My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE ME WILL NOT OBEY MY TEACHINGS. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
AND BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER HE GAVE HIS DISCIPLES THESE COMMANDS;
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU . And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
THESE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS ARE TRUE AND IS THE TRUTH.
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
WILL ANYONE BE SANCTIFIED WITHOUT OBEYING THE TRUTH?
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
DOES THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION TEACHES US TO DISOBEY BY SAYING THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES, VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS?
THAT EVEN OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION SINCE "ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?
IF SANCTIFICATION IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...
WHY WAIT FOR A SAVIOR?
(hebrews 5:7-9)
IF OBEDIENCE IS NOT A PART OF SALVATION...
HERE'S WHAT THE "WORD OF TRUTH", "THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION" TEACHES US...
Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But if you do not WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.


3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhortyou that ye should EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH which was once delivered unto the saints. 4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR LASCIVIOUSNESS), and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
here's the thing, those who believe that OSAS is true, believe that if God takes away the pattern of sinful desires, then that person have no pattern of sinful desires.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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here's the thing, those who believe that OSAS is true, believe that if God takes away the pattern of sinful desires, then that person have no pattern of sinful desires.

t...,
The whole concept of OSAS is ludricus and contempuous for just 2 reasons (there are 20-30 more);

Why would G-d give us unlimited # of times for forgiveness,
Why would G-d tell us...; "sacrifice for forgiveness is not available when sin is present"

The OSAS concept has only been advocated in Christendom since ABOUT the 1960's (an era of great social and moral upheaval in society) and was/is part of a new age religion re-interpretation of scriptures consistent with...."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear"...

Further, the concept is in conflict with G-d's plan for us to be judged after physical death. I doubt we have the power to change G-d's plans in any way ......except appeal thru prayer.

I doubt He appreciates that in any form.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
t...,
The whole concept of OSAS is ludricus and contempuous for just 2 reasons (there are 20-30 more);

Why would G-d give us unlimited # of times for forgiveness,
Why would G-d tell us...; "sacrifice for forgiveness is not available when sin is present"

The OSAS concept has only been advocated in Christendom since ABOUT the 1960's (an era of great social and moral upheaval in society) and was/is part of a new age religion re-interpretation of scriptures consistent with...."tickle my ears and tell me what I want to hear"...

Further, the concept is in conflict with G-d's plan for us to be judged after physical death. I doubt we have the power to change G-d's plans in any way ......except appeal thru prayer.

I doubt He appreciates that in any form.
is there anything both parties can agree on like "Jesus is Lord"?