Not By Works

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Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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  1. Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
  2. Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
  3. Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
  4. Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)


It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.




THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).

THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)


John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”


THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.


Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.


1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.


1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father


1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.


Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.


Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?


2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.


Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.


Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.


Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.


Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.


Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”


Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’


WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.


James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.


Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.


1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.


Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.


THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).


Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”


1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.


Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”


John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.


Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.


2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.


1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.


John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.


John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.


John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 

Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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Creation, which speaks daily, addresses this truth....it also proves that even good trees that produce good fruit occasionally throws a worm infested or rotten apple to the ground, may or may not produce, is dependent upon the correct moisture, fertilizer and temps (biblical growth AFTER SALVATION) to produce and remains an apple tree after sprouting (birth) throughout it's whole life regardless of production!

The deceitful workers for fail to acknowledge that a true eternally saved believer has already done the work of the Heavenly Father in their act of faith/belief into the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST!

Amen to this post dcontroversal.
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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Brave question.
Any gardener knows fruit is not automatic even on branch that is alive and well.

James has been so mangled to appease those who say that a person can loose their salvation, by saying they never had faith to begin with, yet this is not the "dead faith" James was writing about.

Only something once alive can be dead and to deny this is to deny objective reality.
Luke 6 43-45 tells us fruit is also doctrine.

Fruit are converts for the kingdom.
Fruit is not produced by every Christian (1 Cor 3:11-15)

Excellent answer.
 

star

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It is my desire to produce "good" fruit but there are times I may deliver a fruit which is tarnished or "cracked."
 

Seohce

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Jul 15, 2016
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19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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19Go ye therefore, and TEACH ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


OUR LORD JESUS BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE FATHER INSTRUCTED HIS DISCIPLES TO TEACH OBEDIENCE UNTO ALL NATIONS.


IF ANYONE WOULD TEACH THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORD, TEACHINGS, LAWS AND COMMANDS, IS NOT NECESSARY OR PART OF SALVATION, DOES HE NOT TEACH CONTRARY TO THE LORD’S TEACHINGS?


WHEN THE LORD SAID THAT “IF YOU WANT TO ENTER LIFE, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS”, AND SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD WILL NOT SAVE ANYONE BECAUSE “FAITH ALONE SAVES”. IS IT NOT A CLEAR REJECTION, NULLIFICATION, DISRESPECT, DISOBEDIENCE, UNBELIEF AND MOCKERY OF GOD’S WORD?


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT and unto every good work REPROBATE.


4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, TURNING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO (A LICENSE FOR) LASCIVIOUSNESS, and DENYING the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


...Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men….Full well ye reject the commandment of God... making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.(mark 7:6-13)


...because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(isaiah 5:20-24)


...Be not deceived; GÒD IS NOT MOCKED: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.(galatians 6:7-10)


32who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things COMETH THE WRATH OF .GOD ÙPON THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE


MAN GOT SEPARATED FROM GOD BECAUSE OF THE SIN OF DISOBEDIENCE WHEN MAN WAS DECEIVED BY THE SERPENT WHO SAID THAT “...Ye shall not surely die.”(genesis 3:4)


DÈCEIVERS OF THIS AGE SAYS THE SAME THING;


“YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE (PERIßH / BE CONDEMNED). ONCE YOU'RE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS ßAVED. JUST HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS (OF RIGHTEOUSNESS / ÒBEDIENCE) AND YOU WILL POSSESS ETERNAL LIFE THE MOMENT YOU BELIEVE.



IS IT NOT APPOINTED FOR MEN TO DIE ONCE AND FACE JUDGMENT AFTER? (hebrews 9:27-28)


11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOÙND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.


“FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD”


JESUS HAS NOT FOUND YOUR WORKS COMPLETE IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. REMEMBER THEREFORE WHÀT YOU HEARD AND RECEIVED. OBEY IT, AND REPENT.(revelations 3:1-6)



47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48HE THAT REJECTETH ME, and RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL. JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I KNOW THAT HIS COMMANDMENT IS LIFE EVERLASTING: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
S...,
None of your reference material validates OSAS. For that matter it is unrelated to OSAS....well maybe a small %.
Having said that, I notice a large % is from scriptures so...... copying 100% of the Bible would not change that proper conclusion.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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We are the one's who WILL STRIVE TO OBEY because we LOVE HIM. Are we Perfect? No, you said it, ONLY JESUS IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF OBEDIENCE. We Strive to Obey, and when we FAIL, we usually immediately confess it as SIN, 1 John 1:9. Do I believe one can become a Prodigal? YES, and the difference between a Prodigal, and the one who only thought he was a Christian, and just stopped believing; IS THE PRODIGAL WILL ALWAYS RETURN TO THE FATHER, very repentant. The non-Born Again that only thought he was a Christian, just went out from us, NEVER TO RETURN.
That is always your response. If they don't return, they were never really saved in the first place. That is a very soft but safe position to take.

So the one that does good works (has sorrow, returns, repents, does well after returning etc. all the manifestations of good works) we know was saved. If you do not manifest these good works, we know you were not saved in the first place. That is what I have been stating for a year now.

Believe
have trust
have faith
because of your love of God obey Him
because of your love of God keep His commandments
endure to the end, even if you do fall for a time, get up and repent and do well.

If you do not follow this path, you were never really saved in the first place. Right?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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AMEN, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to share with you: 1. What OSAS really is, 2. What we really Believe, and 3. the Scriptures that support OSAS. It is frustrating, to hear all the false statements about our Beliefs, with nobody really wanting to Ask Us what we really believe, and what Scriptures support our views.

You have to understand that almost all of us that Believe in OSAS, are firm believers in interpreting the Bible LITERALLY, accept where there is an obvious Figurative Language being used. Here is an example of Figurative Language: "When we read in Psalm 91:4 that God will cover us "with his feathers," we are not supposed to literally picture God as having feathers. Again, this is figurative language."

With that in mind, we take the following Verses LITERALLY:

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (CSBBible)
10 Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit, since the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
11 For who knows a person's thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.
13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
14 But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.

John 14:26 (HCSB)
26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit—the Father will send Him in My name—will teach you all things and remind you of everything I have told you.

John 14:16 (CSBBible)
16 "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever.

John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Matthew 25:1-13 (HCSB)
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
3 When the foolish took their lamps, they didn’t take olive oil with them.
4 But the sensible ones took oil in their flasks with their lamps.
5 Since the groom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout:Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.
7 “Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.
8 But the foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 “The sensible ones answered, ‘No, there won’t be enough for us and for you. Go instead to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves.’
10 “When they had gone to buy some, the groom arrived. Then those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, I assure you: I do not know you!
13 “Therefore be alert, because you don’t know either the day or the hour.

2 John 1:1-2 (HCSB)
1 The Elder: To the elect lady and her children: I love all of you in the truth—and not only I, but also all who have come to know the truth
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me {those who are BORN AGAIN}, you will keep My commands.

1 John 2:3-5 (HCSB)
3 This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoever keeps His word, truly in him the love of God is perfected.
This is how we know we are in Him:


Now there are a LOT more supportive verses for OSAS, however, that is enough for now. SALVATION happens in the MOMENT WE FIRST BELIEVED, and it is FREE GIFT. Many people do not realize it but SALVATION happens the moment we genuinely BELIEVE, while SANCTIFICATION is a life long STRUGGLE trying to become more and more like CHRIST. We do not think it is instructing that we HAVE TO KEEP HIS COMMANDS for SALVATION, but WILL WANT TO KEEP HIS COMMANDS OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM. Some even think SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION are the same thing, and that's is where works Rightousness, a FALSE DOCTRINE comes from.

Our BELIEF is centered on BORN AGAIN, and the references of "KNOWING CHRIST" in the above verses is a reference to being Born Again. It happens when you reach an end of yourself, mourning over your UTTER SINFULNESS, and you willingly out of LOVE FOR HIM, you surrender to JESUS CHRIST. Salvation was one MOMENT, but THE LOVE for the LORD will LAST FOREVER. NO ONE CAN ENTER HEAVEN, without being Born Again, John 3:3-7. In the Parable of the GATES in Mat. 7, we believe it is ONLY talking about people who call themselves CHRISTIANS. The MANY go through the WRONG GATE, and only genuinely Born Again Christians enter the Narrow Gate and it says ONLY A FEW FIND IT.

God is telling me I need to end this, before it gets too long. I thank you for giving me a Chance to set the OSAS record Straight. Notice how VASTLY DIFFERENT than what many have thought it was. I cannot resist, just one more portion of Scripture:


1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
All of these scriptures are debatable as to whether they prove OSAS.

The one that comes close is John 10:27-30.
However, Jesus tells us himself that if those who are IN HIM do not produce fruit, they will be taken away by Jesus's Father, God. So apparently God can snatch them from Jesus's hand. (but it is only if they do not produce fruit).

This scripture alone proves OSAS is not a sound doctrine. The concept of being IN HIM expresses that Jesus is talking about saved persons who are IN HIM. IOW you cannot be IN HIM and be unsaved, or unborn again.
And Jesus exactly expresses that those IN HIM (saved or born again) who do not produce fruit will be taken away and burned by God Himself.

Many, many scriptures eliminate the doctrine of OSAS.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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and people are picking on dcon, why?
Because he has said that 90% of Christians are wrong, and he mocks us at the same time. He thinks that he and his small band of OSAS are the only Christians that will be saved.

So as one of the 90% of Christians that he says are wrong, I am not willing to lay down and take his word for it. We are trying to explain to him that all Christians that believe in Jesus and keep his commandments will be allowed into heaven too. It will be interesting when that day arrives.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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All of these scriptures are debatable as to whether they prove OSAS.

The one that comes close is John 10:27-30.
However, Jesus tells us himself that if those who are IN HIM do not produce fruit, they will be taken away by Jesus's Father, God. So apparently God can snatch them from Jesus's hand. (but it is only if they do not produce fruit).

This scripture alone proves OSAS is not a sound doctrine. The concept of being IN HIM expresses that Jesus is talking about saved persons who are IN HIM. IOW you cannot be IN HIM and be unsaved, or unborn again.
And Jesus exactly expresses that those IN HIM (saved or born again) who do not produce fruit will be taken away and burned by God Himself.

Many, many scriptures eliminate the doctrine of OSAS.
I agree with AT Robertson - There are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

Not all who set out to follow Jesus and claim to be Christians and are in some way connected to Christ are genuine believers (John 6:64-71; John 13:10–11).

Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the fruitless branches are identified as not belonging to vine and are cut off.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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You know that every one that thinks OSAS is Ludicrous bases his OPINION about OSAS on PURE FICTION. You have know idea what OSAS actually teaches, because YOU ONLY REITERATE what you have been taught by a teacher that knows even less about the OSAS BELIEFS than you do. How about you Ask US what we honestly BELIEVE on a specific subject, and TRASH CAN WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TAUGHT.
Tell me if this is what OSAS is:

The second you believe in Jesus, you are saved in the eternal kingdom of God. The end.

The particulars can be discussed but this is the prime event. OSAS also gets Calvinistic, in that it is not you who choose to believe or have faith or do the works, or endure to the end, but it is all God working through you. IOW, God chooses who He will save and who He will damn, and there is nothing you can do to stop His choice. It is all based on His will and pleasure.

So there you have it in a nutshell. Again, like I say, the particulars can be discussed, but the second God comes to you and infuses into you a belief in Jesus, you are His forever and ever. Any one He does not choose to infuse with a belief in His Son, will be damned for ever and ever.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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I agree with AT Robertson - There are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). - John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

In John 15, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit (vs. 2) but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13).

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

*So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine, (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the New Covenant which was not yet fully established.

Not all who set out to follow Jesus and claim to be Christians and are in some way connected to Christ are genuine believers (John 6:64-71; John 13:10–11).

Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self attached, He neither elected them, nor saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the fruitless branches are identified as not belonging to vine and are cut off.
2 key words you leave out of every discussion of John 15:2+: They are IN HIM. Jesus is talking about those branches that are IN HIM. It does not matter whether they are IN HIM at the time he spoke it or any time later.
He is speaking of all branches that are IN HIM, or will be IN HIM.

Please explain to us what you think IN HIM means. Because to me it means those that believe and have faith and are saved. Otherwise they cannot be in his vine and be receiving nourishment from Jesus. Those who are fakers cannot be IN HIM. Please explain the term IN HIM?
 

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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So the one that does good works (has sorrow, returns, repents, does well after returning etc. all the manifestations of good works) we know was saved. If you do not manifest these good works, we know you were not saved in the first place. That is what I have been stating for a year now.
So are you saying if that a person does not maifest works in any way shape or form then they were never saved in the first place?

Therefore OSAS is not really relevant?

But if a person is saved per your post 63,850 but stops producing fruit they have lost their salvation therefore proves the point that OSAS is false?

So apparently God can snatch them from Jesus's hand. (but it is only if they do not produce fruit).
John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Those the Father has given to his son cannot be snatched out of the sons hands and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hands.

The Father and Son are one.
The Father gave to the Son the Son keeps and places them in Fathers hands.

Given that how many given will be lost?
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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2 key words you leave out of every discussion of John 15:2+: They are IN HIM. Jesus is talking about those branches that are IN HIM. It does not matter whether they are IN HIM at the time he spoke it or any time later.
He is speaking of all branches that are IN HIM, or will be IN HIM.

Please explain to us what you think IN HIM means. Because to me it means those that believe and have faith and are saved. Otherwise they cannot be in his vine and be receiving nourishment from Jesus. Those who are fakers cannot be IN HIM. Please explain the term IN HIM?
I already explained it.
 

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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Because he has said that 90% of Christians are wrong, and he mocks us at the same time. He thinks that he and his small band of OSAS are the only Christians that will be saved.

So as one of the 90% of Christians that he says are wrong, I am not willing to lay down and take his word for it. We are trying to explain to him that all Christians that believe in Jesus and keep his commandments will be allowed into heaven too. It will be interesting when that day arrives.
Did DC say say that only those who believe OSAS will be saved?

Please quote his post that said that.
 

benhur

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Feb 8, 2018
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So are you saying if that a person does not maifest works in any way shape or form then they were never saved in the first place?

Therefore OSAS is not really relevant?

But if a person is saved per your post 63,850 but stops producing fruit they have lost their salvation therefore proves the point that OSAS is false?



John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Those the Father has given to his son cannot be snatched out of the sons hands and no one is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hands.

The Father and Son are one.
The Father gave to the Son the Son keeps and places them in Fathers hands.

Given that how many given will be lost?
Those given that produce little or no fruit. John 15:2 also says that even those that produce fruit will be purged so as to produce more fruit. IOW even those saved that produce fruit will have trials in their lives that will cause them to do 1 of 2 things: Either wither away and die unsaved, or come through the ordeal with a firmer realization that Jesus is the Son of God and produce more fruit.

Either way, you better be producing fruit at a level that God accepts (and He will judge what that amount is per individual and their circumstances. If you have been given much, much is expected. If you have been given less, less is expected) or you will be cut off of His branch, and taken away and burned.

No one can snatch you away from Jesus's hand except for you and your willingness to produce fruit for his kingdom, or not.