Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
He is doingitin order to gain, maintain salvation, thus he practices self righteousness, nt Christs righteousness.

Trying to compair that righteousness which comes from pride, and us who want to obay god out of appreciation for the fact he has saved us, in gratitude and thanksgiving is like trying to compair apples and oranges, they do not mix

I do pray one day the modern day pharisee movement will see this and repent. .
Well I don't know his heart only Yah can know.

Psalm 11:4, "יהוה is in His holy temple; יהוה throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.”

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

Jeremiah 17:10, “I, יהוה, search the heart, I try the kidneys, and give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Luke 11:28, “But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Luke 8:21, And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

Fact is none are saved by their works, YHWH saves, yet the teaching of the Messiah is clear:

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John/Yahanan 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
Well I don't know his heart only Yah can know.

Psalm 11:4, "יהוה is in His holy temple; יהוה throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.”

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

Jeremiah 17:10, “I, יהוה, search the heart, I try the kidneys, and give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Luke 11:28, “But He said, “Blessed rather are those hearing the Word of Yah and watching over it!”

Luke 8:21, And He answering, said to them, “My mother and My brothers are those who are hearing the Word of Yah and doing it.”

Fact is none are saved by their works, YHWH saves, yet the teaching of the Messiah is clear:

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”

1 John/Yahanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk as He walked."

1 John/Yahanan 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”
Yep,

Thanks for showing you also believe one must earn their salvation, that they are saved by their ability and power to abide, do the commands, and following the law.

Sorry my friend, the law demands perfection, you have failed to fulfill those demands, let alone trying to satisfy those demands for the rest of your life, so trying to maintain your salvation by abiding and obeying is a futile attempt, and you will fail,

Start trusting God, have faith in his promise

His promise to save you completely, to perfect you forever while in process of sanctifying you, for giving you eternal life and his spirit which empowers you to obey his commands, and fullfill those verses you love to show which for the most part are descriptive passage of who a person is, (true child of God) vs prescriptive passages of what one must do. (Which s legalism and trying to save yourself by doing those things)

I have faith if you try real hard you can someday realise the difference.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
113
Yep,

Thanks for showing you also believe one must earn their salvation, that they are saved by their ability and power to abide, do the commands, and following the law.

Sorry my friend, the law demands perfection, you have failed to fulfill those demands, let alone trying to satisfy those demands for the rest of your life, so trying to maintain your salvation by abiding and obeying is a futile attempt, and you will fail,

Start trusting God, have faith in his promise

His promise to save you completely, to perfect you forever while in process of sanctifying you, for giving you eternal life and his spirit which empowers you to obey his commands, and fullfill those verses you love to show which for the most part are descriptive passage of who a person is, (true child of God) vs prescriptive passages of what one must do. (Which s legalism and trying to save yourself by doing those things)

I have faith if you try real hard you can someday realise the difference.
Amen.....the workers for, law keepers, Pharisees, Lawyers and Cainologists MUST help God with the salvation they claim to have....they have NO concept of positional sanctification based entirely upon faith and being justified eternally by the blood of Christ. They have no concept of the fact that JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES the WORK of faith in us. They have NO concept of the words IRREVOCABLE GIFT, SAVED to the UTTERMOST, KEPT by the POWER of GOD........They have NO concept of being BORN AGAIN from ABOVE by INCORRUPTABLE SEED.....They, in their minds, BELIEVE that THEY have to obey some set of rules, regulations and or LAWS which they WILL never be able to KEEP in order to MAINTAIN that which is NOT maintainable....

The PLENTEOUS (MANY) in NUMBER that come before the throne ESPOUSE the SAME dogma that the aforementioned HOLD to....

a. THEY claim they KNOW JESUS by faith
b. THEY claim their right to actually enter is based UPON what they HAVE DONE IN HIS NAME (WORKS, LAW KEEPING, SERVITUDE)
C. THEY will not make the final cut because they NEVER truly trusted into Christ and HIS finished work

FAITH plus ANYTHING to gain, keep, embellish, top off, maintain SALVATION equates to a false gospel which....

a. Has no power to save
b. Is double cursed
c. Leads to being cast from the presence of God
d. ALL who believe it are called fools and bewitched

The simplicity found in Christ is as follows....

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE "eternally" those who BELIEVE.

The above mentioned Cainologists refuse to acknowledge the above truth because they MUST..........fill in the blank!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
John 14:21, “he who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
113
Yep......love is a spiritual gift and NO one can love God unless they have already been BORN from ABOVE by FAITH eternally.....which HAS nothing to DO with LAW keeping or COMMANDMENTS....

AND NO ONE keeps the law or has KEPT the law except JESUS......those who say they do are false!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Can EG or DC show from my posts where I say anything that would constitute "working for salvation"?

Or are there some verses that if people quote you get bent out of shape?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
113
Can EG or DC show from my posts where I say anything that would constitute "working for salvation"?

Or are there some verses that if people quote you get bent out of shape?
When you answer the question that you continually dance around with a simple yes or no

Do you keep the law?
Have you kept the law?

A simple yes or no will suffice.......

Here, I will help you....The answer is NO.....the LAW has ONE purpose, that being to condemn, prove guilt and POINT you at the righteousness of CHRIST WITHOUT the law imputed by faith......

Neither you or ANY of your law keeping Hebrew roots cronies keep the law....regardless of how many times you actually believe you keep the law....

Love GOD and LOVE your neighbor<---and NO one does this unless born from above by faith and faith alone.....!
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
When you answer the question that you continually dance around with a simple yes or no

Do you keep the law?
Have you kept the law?

A simple yes or no will suffice.......

Here, I will help you....The answer is NO.....the LAW has ONE purpose, that being to condemn, prove guilt and POINT you at the righteousness of CHRIST WITHOUT the law imputed by faith......

Neither you or ANY of your law keeping Hebrew roots cronies keep the law....regardless of how many times you actually believe you keep the law....

Love GOD and LOVE your neighbor<---and NO one does this unless born from above by faith and faith alone.....!
So no you can not quote a single thing I said but use this to make me look bad? Yet I will answer, yes I have sinned and broken the Law, one sin unto death is worthy of death, thankfully, YHWH has provided Yahshua the Messiah and offered mankind, myself included, mercy, for this I am thankful and this makes me want to do His will even more.

I know your game, when I admit I have sinned you yell "sinner! law breaker!" etc.

Well, maybe quote something I said that is wrong?

and read this:

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


I am still waiting for you to quote from my posts that says "working for salvation" until you can provide that I will assume you as having personal issues and taking them out upon any that would dare say "do His will, keep His commands"

LOL you called me a phairsee lawyer for posting this before:

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

You explosion at these passages really showed your heart.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mat 7:12-14, "Therefore, all things you want men to do to you, do the same to them, for this is the (intent of the) Law and the Prophets. Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
="eternally-gratefull, post: 3684339, member: 82611"]Yep,

Thanks for showing you also believe one must earn their salvation, that they are saved by their ability and power to abide, do the commands, and following the law.


Matt. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Rejecting His instructions, and creating my own places me in the "Unworthy" department of those who Jesus spoke of in Matt. 7.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Maybe had they "DONE" as the Christ instructed they wouldn't have spent their life believing they were saved when they weren't.

Sorry my friend, the law demands perfection, you have failed to fulfill those demands, let alone trying to satisfy those demands for the rest of your life, so trying to maintain your salvation by abiding and obeying is a futile attempt, and you will fail,

Start trusting God, have faith in his promise


Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Yes, we all know you preach against this. But with the Word which became Flesh, all things are possible even if you preach they are not. And since Jesus gave me a clean slate, I can start anew each day striving to "Walk even as He Walked" with the Faith that in my weakness there is Strength in Him..

His promise to save you completely, to perfect you forever while in process of sanctifying you, for giving you eternal life and his spirit which empowers you to obey his commands, and fullfill those verses you love to show which for the most part are descriptive passage of who a person is, (true child of God) vs prescriptive passages of what one must do. (Which s legalism and trying to save yourself by doing those things)
I have faith if you try real hard you can someday realise the difference.


Luke 6:
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Maybe you have found another way EG. But I'm sticking to the Word which became Flesh.
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
Can EG or DC show from my posts where I say anything that would constitute "working for salvation"?

Or are there some verses that if people quote you get bent out of shape?
You still ask this? when we have shown you so many times?

Lets see, we can start here

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
According to you, This is required to be saved, According to the word. this is a DESCRIPTIVE account of who is saved, Not how to get saved.

Well I don't know his heart only Yah can know.
James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
Where you have James saying a man must endure trials in order to be saved (work)

or this verse

Jeremiah 17:10, “I, יהוה, search the heart, I try the kidneys, and give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Where God speaks of rewards given to his people. and you have God saving people based on their fruit (again salvation by works)


or when you say things like this

Fact is none are saved by their works, YHWH saves, yet the teaching of the Messiah is clear:

John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”
where you have people aere only saved if they abide (work) if they obey (work) and if they keep Gods commands (work)

and not that they do these things because they have been saved, (ie, descriptive, those who are saved obey God, those who are not saved do not obey him)

You have been here for years my friend, the argument has been the same, every time, yet you every time demand you are not teaching works.
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
Matt. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Rejecting His instructions, and creating my own places me in the "Unworthy" department of those who Jesus spoke of in Matt. 7.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Maybe had they "DONE" as the Christ instructed they wouldn't have spent their life believing they were saved when they weren't.



Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Yes, we all know you preach against this. But with the Word which became Flesh, all things are possible even if you preach they are not. And since Jesus gave me a clean slate, I can start anew each day striving to "Walk even as He Walked" with the Faith that in my weakness there is Strength in Him..



Luke 6:
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Maybe you have found another way EG. But I'm sticking to the Word which became Flesh.
another modern day pharisee who takes descriptive passages, and passages we should use to search our own hearts to test our own faith. and makes them demands of works which MUST BE DONE TO BE SAVED>

then declairs they do not teach works.

No one is buying it man. You can post verse after verse, ,but as long as you continue to misapply and missinterpret them, to support your modern day phariseeism, You will be exposed as to what you really believe, You do not need people like me to show you, Anyone who truly sits and looks at what you say and looks at the verses in context can see it.

ps. I did not find another way, God shows me the way, NARROW IS THE GATE, Not the wide gate your trying to enter in.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
113
So no you can not quote a single thing I said but use this to make me look bad? Yet I will answer, yes I have sinned and broken the Law, one sin unto death is worthy of death, thankfully, YHWH has provided Yahshua the Messiah and offered mankind, myself included, mercy, for this I am thankful and this makes me want to do His will even more.

I know your game, when I admit I have sinned you yell "sinner! law breaker!" etc.

Well, maybe quote something I said that is wrong?

and read this:

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

1 John 2:1-2, “My little children, I write this to you, so that you do not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Intercessor with the Father, יהושע Messiah, a righteous One. And He Himself is an atoning offering for our sins, and not for ours only but also for all the world.”

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”


I am still waiting for you to quote from my posts that says "working for salvation" until you can provide that I will assume you as having personal issues and taking them out upon any that would dare say "do His will, keep His commands"

LOL you called me a phairsee lawyer for posting this before:

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

You explosion at these passages really showed your heart.
See your deception above....nice twist in bolded.....

I did not ask if you HAVE SINNED.....I asked if you KEEP THE LAW..........and like normal you fail to answer in an honest, truthful way.....very very deceptive....just like the Pharisee of old.....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,118
20,044
113
You still ask this? when we have shown you so many times?

Lets see, we can start here



According to you, This is required to be saved, According to the word. this is a DESCRIPTIVE account of who is saved, Not how to get saved.



Where you have James saying a man must endure trials in order to be saved (work)

or this verse



Where God speaks of rewards given to his people. and you have God saving people based on their fruit (again salvation by works)

or when you say things like this



where you have people aere only saved if they abide (work) if they obey (work) and if they keep Gods commands (work)

and not that they do these things because they have been saved, (ie, descriptive, those who are saved obey God, those who are not saved do not obey him)

You have been here for years my friend, the argument has been the same, every time, yet you every time demand you are not teaching works.
Like his long lost cousins the Pharisees.....he is very very slick and deceptive....most if not all Cainologists, workers for, lawyers will say one thing while actually teaching and pushing a working for law keeping false salvation...

I ask....PRESENT TENSE...DO you KEEP the LAW and he answers in the PAST TENSE which on the outside seems to answer the question, but in reality does not....
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
See your deception above....nice twist in bolded.....

I did not ask if you HAVE SINNED.....I asked if you KEEP THE LAW..........and like normal you fail to answer in an honest, truthful way.....very very deceptive....just like the Pharisee of old.....
confusion is what it is

if you have sinned, you have not kept the law.

so biblically, when he admits he has sinned, He admits he has not kept the law
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
Like his long lost cousins the Pharisees.....he is very very slick and deceptive....most if not all Cainologists, workers for, lawyers will say one thing while actually teaching and pushing a working for law keeping false salvation...

I ask....PRESENT TENSE...DO you KEEP the LAW and he answers in the PAST TENSE which on the outside seems to answer the question, but in reality does not....
oh it answers it

if he has sinned, he has not kept the law. Moses demanded, and paul afirmed, whoever does not confirm and obey every word of the law is under a curse.

Christ is the only man who ever kept the law.. If we do not admit this, and admit according to the law I am already guilty and without hope, and no amount of law obeying for the rest of my life will help remove that curse, then we have yet to repent fully.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
You still ask this? when we have shown you so many times?

Lets see, we can start here



According to you, This is required to be saved, According to the word. this is a DESCRIPTIVE account of who is saved, Not how to get saved.



Where you have James saying a man must endure trials in order to be saved (work)

or this verse



Where God speaks of rewards given to his people. and you have God saving people based on their fruit (again salvation by works)

or when you say things like this



where you have people aere only saved if they abide (work) if they obey (work) and if they keep Gods commands (work)

and not that they do these things because they have been saved, (ie, descriptive, those who are saved obey God, those who are not saved do not obey him)

You have been here for years my friend, the argument has been the same, every time, yet you every time demand you are not teaching works.
HMM. SO you quoted verses I posted then put words into my mouth to find my guilt, OK, why dont you take those verses I "misuse" and tell me their real meaning?
 
Mar 14, 2011
69,465
14,804
113
HMM. SO you quoted verses I posted then put words into my mouth to find my guilt, OK, why dont you take those verses I "misuse" and tell me their real meaning?
1. I used the interpretation you have used since you have been here, have you changed your view?
2. If you read what I said, I have said what the true intepretation should be (at least for most of them)
3. If I am wrong in how I think you interpret those passages, Can you show me and everyone in the roon where I was wrong in what you think those verses mean?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
See your deception above....nice twist in bolded.....

I did not ask if you HAVE SINNED.....I asked if you KEEP THE LAW..........and like normal you fail to answer in an honest, truthful way.....very very deceptive....just like the Pharisee of old.....
No your splitting hairs, sin is transgression of the Law, I even said I have committed sin worthy of death and am thinkful for Yah's mercy. You pick at any little thing you can to accuse.

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,706
3,641
113
I know your game, when I admit I have sinned you yell "sinner! law breaker!" etc.
I am not speaking for DC or speaking on his behalf.

He does not play games when it comes to salvation and our walk with Jesus.

I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong but given what you have said above he would never call you a sinner or a law breaker because you admit you sin.

The issue is how we are saved and not how we save ourselves.

He has responded many many times with love and at times with tough love but gentle to those who admit they sin.

He would never condemn another believer who aknowledges they need Jesus to be saved and would always walk with a believer who wants help.

But like most of us on here he will fight against "Jesus saved me but now I must work to keep my salvation"

We are saved by grace to do good works prepared for us to do.

We are not saved by works to receive grace to earn salvation.

If that was the case then it's not grace.

Jesus did the ultimate work.
And that work being of God

John 6:29 (NKJV)

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

When we do that we walk in his way because we have been born again of the Father, of the incorruptible seed and given the Holy Spirit.
The deposit on our lives.