Not By Works

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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1. I used the interpretation you have used since you have been here, have you changed your view?
2. If you read what I said, I have said what the true intepretation should be (at least for most of them)
3. If I am wrong in how I think you interpret those passages, Can you show me and everyone in the roon where I was wrong in what you think those verses mean?
If Im trying to work out understang WITH you rather than trying to prove something to you I would say this; I think you ignore parts of what I say and latch on to anything you can to.

1. You never gave the meaning of those verses I posted.

2. According to you can someone continually commit sin* (break the Law) and still be saved? If you say no are you preaching a works based gospel?

*1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of YHWH? Do not be deceived. Neither those who whore, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of Yah.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

WIll I get called names because I quoted that and asked you a question about it?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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I am not speaking for DC or speaking on his behalf.

He does not play games when it comes to salvation and our walk with Jesus.

I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong but given what you have said above he would never call you a sinner or a law breaker because you admit you sin.
.
OK... he has done it over and over, even in big letters with !!!!!!!

he wrote "LAW BREAKER!!!!" and called me a "pharisee lawyer"
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Deuteronomy 27:26Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Here is true obedience to the law and here is the just requirement of the law. Who ever has not fulfilled these words. is under a curse, And it is clear even james shows the truth, that even if we break the least of all commands, we are STILL found guilty of the whole law.


When someone admits they have sinned, they do not need anyone to show them they have failed to keep the law. The bible says so itself.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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If Im trying to work out understang WITH you rather than trying to prove something to you I would say this; I think you ignore parts of what I say and latch on to anything you can to.

1. You never gave the meaning of those verses I posted.


You still ask this? when we have shown you so many times?

Lets see, we can start here
According to you, This is required to be saved
, According to the word. this is a DESCRIPTIVE account of who is saved, Not how to get saved.

where you have people are only saved if they abide (work) if they obey (work) and if they keep Gods commands (work)

and not that they do these things because they have been saved, (ie, descriptive, those who are saved obey God, those who are not saved do not obey him)
Can you humble yourself to repent of being wrong?

2. According to you can someone continually commit sin* (break the Law) and still be saved? If you say no are you preaching a works based gospel?

*1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of YHWH? Do not be deceived. Neither those who whore, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of Yah.”

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

WIll I get called names because I quoted that and asked you a question about it?
here you go again, blame shift, try to change the subject. You

1. Said I interpreted you wrong, can you prove it?

2. Said I NEVER explained what any verse said

again, I ask,

if I misinterpreted you in a verse show me and the room where I erred.

I will not answer this question until you answer mine,
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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OK so I have been on this site since 2012, I am locked out of my account and the MODS will not even reply to my emails, I have gone though this with DC many times, probably more than 20, he has stated he views yet has not been able to show me a single post of mine hwere I am guilty of what he claims.

I believe DC has enmity against Yah's commands, so when I post verses like this:

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

he called me a "pharisee lawyer"

at this point all I can do is pray I see no way someone could get pharisee from quoting those verses...
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Can you humble yourself to repent of being wrong?



here you go again, blame shift, try to change the subject. You

1. Said I interpreted you wrong, can you prove it?

2. Said I NEVER explained what any verse said

again, I ask,

if I misinterpreted you in a verse show me and the room where I erred.

I will not answer this question until you answer mine,
I asked you t o show me where I promote "works based gospel" and to show me what those verses really meant, you are now turing it aroung and asking me.

This is how it started today:

Yep,

Thanks for showing you also believe one must earn their salvation, that they are saved by their ability and power to abide, do the commands, and following the law.

Sorry my friend, the law demands perfection, you have failed to fulfill those demands, let alone trying to satisfy those demands for the rest of your life, so trying to maintain your salvation by abiding and obeying is a futile attempt, and you will fail,

Start trusting God, have faith in his promise

His promise to save you completely, to perfect you forever while in process of sanctifying you, for giving you eternal life and his spirit which empowers you to obey his commands, and fullfill those verses you love to show which for the most part are descriptive passage of who a person is, (true child of God) vs prescriptive passages of what one must do. (Which s legalism and trying to save yourself by doing those things)

I have faith if you try real hard you can someday realise the difference.
How is it now that the burden is upin me to prove the other is teaching falsehood, when I asked you first to quote my error and show me the real meaning?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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Here, I have to log off because I have some errands to do but possible we can find a starting middle ground here:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Is it love if we guard the Commands of Yah?

Should we guard the Commands of Yah?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I asked you t o show me where I promote "works based gospel" and to show me what those verses really meant, you are now turing it aroung and asking me.

This is how it started today:



How is it now that the burden is upin me to prove the other is teaching falsehood, when I asked you first to quote my error and show me the real meaning?
Dude, you said I did not explain what the verses meant, I just proved I did, and you want to blame me?

You post verses all the time, and you NEVER give what you think the verses mean, Which means we are left to listen to what you say, and interpret those verses by what you are declaring.

I posted a verse you used, Used the interpretation that by what you have been saying for years to prove what I said was right.

You can either continue to ignore (proving I was right) or show me I was wrong, by reposting the verse and telling us what YOU think the verse means.

An example.

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”
You post this verse hundreds of times to show how we are saved (in that context) and you have it in your signature

Can you explain what this verse means when it comes to the gospel? (prove me wrong)

Does it mean we have to obey to be saved, Or does it mean those who love God (because he first love them) obey because they have been loved (saved) by God. and this passage has no relation to how one is saved.

Its simple to do.. You can prove me wring right here, Or you can continue to try to blame shift.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Here, I have to log off because I have some errands to do but possible we can find a starting middle ground here:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Is it love if we guard the Commands of Yah?

Should we guard the Commands of Yah?

Are you saved because you do those things, or do you do those things because your saved.

also. Gods commands are numerous. Its not just the law. the law was given for a purpose. can you agree with paul that that purpose was to bring us to our knees and admit we are sinners?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Matt. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Rejecting His instructions, and creating my own places me in the "Unworthy" department of those who Jesus spoke of in Matt. 7.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Maybe had they "DONE" as the Christ instructed they wouldn't have spent their life believing they were saved when they weren't.



Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Yes, we all know you preach against this. But with the Word which became Flesh, all things are possible even if you preach they are not. And since Jesus gave me a clean slate, I can start anew each day striving to "Walk even as He Walked" with the Faith that in my weakness there is Strength in Him..



Luke 6:
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Maybe you have found another way EG. But I'm sticking to the Word which became Flesh.
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OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, WHICH IS A GIFT OF GOD.

HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE is spawns from the LOVE HE PUT IN OUR HEART, Rom. 5:5, the Harvest of that LOVE, like a seed that was planted in the fertile soil in our heart.

I do not know HOW I can make it more plain to YOU.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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hmm so what exactly is it you yourself are doing....?
<><.🕆.><>

OBEDIENCE IS NOT PART OF SALVATION, WHICH IS A GIFT OF GOD.

HOWEVER, OBEDIENCE is spawns from the LOVE HE PUT IN OUR HEART, Rom. 5:5, the Harvest of that LOVE, like a seed that was planted in the fertile soil in our heart.

I do not know HOW I can make it more plain to YOU.
There are so many flavors of false religions and works salvation out there.

They all have a difference in style but are the same in substance — “works based” false gospel. :cautious:
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Here, I have to log off because I have some errands to do but possible we can find a starting middle ground here:

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Is it love if we guard the Commands of Yah?

Should we guard the Commands of Yah?
but, see, here is your deception-you and others quote 1st John verbatim about command keeping, but you and the other Judeaizers fail to mention that John said, in the same letter , that the commands He is referring to are believe in the name of the Son and love one another. not sabbath keeping. the same John said he was in the Sprit on the Lord's day. he did not say Sabbath, a different greek word is used here.

you also point to John saying that Jesus said " if you love me, keep my commands." you and others wrongly point to the Torah as what Jesus meant. that is not true.

on the mount of transfiguration, God the Father came down and said, in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the Prophets ) " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased . Hear HIM!

this means the Words in red. not the Torah. you see, since you and your group deny the truth of Trinity, and push the lie of oneness, this is Scripture ya'll all ignore.

it is so ironic that you go on and on about obedience , yet you and the others refuse to obey the clear instruction of God the Father, and insist on denying the separation of the old and new Covenants. amazing.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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There are so many flavors of false religions and works salvation out there.

They all have a difference in style but are the same in substance — “works based” false gospel. :cautious:
Our religion is not "works based". If is "Jesus based". True gospel.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Works to earn grace negates grace, yet grace empowers works.

Grace gives freedom to be and do.

Trying to earn grace and love will ensnare us.
We love because he first loved us.
We do to others because he did it first to us.

Amazing Grace
How sweet that sound that saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now I'm found.
I was blind but now I see.

If we could be saved by our works then Jesus would have said so.

Can anyone quote a Bible verse where Jesus said this?

Yes he said "If you love me then do this"

He never said it would save them.

"if you love me he said"

Those who love him and have placed faith in him will obey
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Our religion is not "works based". If is "Jesus based". True gospel.
There are many people out there who teach salvation by works and the scary part is they don’t even realize they’re teaching salvation by works. Christianity is Jesus based and the true gospel is saved by grace through faith based and not works based.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Our religion is not "works based". If is "Jesus based". True gospel.
You state many works to be saved and add many caveats.

Not baptised before you die then not saved.

Die with one ounce of unforgiveness before you die then you are not forgiven (as you said to me)
But when I return the comment about unforgiveness you said "God will accept that and judge me according to my heart"

That's your religion.
It lacks compassion and love.
The very thing that Jesus told us to walk in.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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No your splitting hairs, sin is transgression of the Law, I even said I have committed sin worthy of death and am thinkful for Yah's mercy. You pick at any little thing you can to accuse.

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

iniquity” is word # G458 - anomia Strong's Concordance, lawlessness, Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."
Do you keep the law.....yes or no?