Not By Works

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Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.
22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine
and champions at mixing drinks,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
but deny justice to the innocent.
24 Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw
and as dry grass sinks down in the flames,
so their roots will decay
and their flowers blow away like dust;
for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 8:20, "To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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The old covenant has been made obsolete to "put legally into place" the new covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) and the life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He has loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments, which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on the Church under the New Covenant. It's as simple as that for me. ;)

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

More exhaustive list:

Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22,23,24; 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23; 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14
Well I believe the Sabbath is for all, and IMO citing Col 2 is false because the Sabbath represents rest in Yahshua, and Col 2 says this:

Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

The Messiah taught the Sabbath:

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

and it is not "according to the tradition of men" YHWH instutited it, not man...
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Well I believe the Sabbath is for all, and IMO citing Col 2 is false because the Sabbath represents rest in Yahshua, and Col 2 says this:

Colossians 2:8, “See to it that no one makes a prey of you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary matters of the world, and not according to Messiah.”

The Messiah taught the Sabbath:

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

and it is not "according to the tradition of men" YHWH instutited it, not man...
Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 12? He was rebuking the Pharisees who accused the disciples of doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath. This has nothing to do with commanding the Church under the new covenant to keep the Sabbath day (under the old covenant) with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31).

In Colossians 2:16, (under the new covenant) Paul clearly states - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. NOWHERE under the new covenant is the Church commanded to keep the Sabbath day and that is good enough for me. (y)

If you wish to seek to keep the Sabbath day, then be my guest, as long as you understand it's not a salvation issue.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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Who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 12? He was rebuking the Pharisees who accused the disciples of doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath. This has nothing to do with commanding the Church under the new covenant to keep the Sabbath day (under the old covenant) with all it's rules and regulations (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31).
OK but you do understand He didn;t actually break the Sabbath He broke the man made rules of the pharisees, there are 600+ that they added to the Sabbath alone...

In Colossians 2:16, (under the new covenant) Paul clearly states - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. NOWHERE under the new covenant is the Church commanded to keep the Sabbath day and that is good enough for me. (y)

If you wish to seek to keep the Sabbath day, then be my guest, as long as you understand it's not a salvation issue.
I think that is about not letting people judge you for doing it, but to each their own...

notice this:

mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
The 7th day Sabbath looks forward to the Sabbath Millennium/1,000 reign of Messiah, so it is what is to come, that is not yet and yes the reality is in the Messiah;s works. I personally am still looking forward to that and His return...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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If you only isolate that single passage, yes, if you read the entire 1 John, this:

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."

I would point a beginniner in the word to this:

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
nice try at a spin, but negative result. as much as John talked about commands in this letter, he said the commands were to believe in the name of the Son and love one another. he never mentioned Sabbath. more false assuming in implying this is what he meant.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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If you only isolate that single passage, yes, if you read the entire 1 John, this:

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."

I would point a beginniner in the word to this:

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
nice try at a spin, but negative result. as much as John talked about commands in this letter, he said the commands were to believe in the name of the Son and love one another. he never mentioned Sabbath. more false assuming in implying this is what he meant.
I never said the Sabbath nor did I say it was not...

Here:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

from the beginning...

You have free will to do what you want, you seem to be getting bent out of shape about a set apart day, I find it odd. Are you secretly in love with Constantine?

CAN you PLEASE explain what Daniel 7:25 means to me, particularly "zemawn"
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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I have a question for everyone who thinks the 7th day Sabbath is abolished in any way, not say it equals salvation, but to all those who say it gone, altered, abolished, whatever...

Can you explain what Daniel 7:25 means, particularly "zemawn"

and

when the Sabbath is kept in the Kingdom shown here during the 1,000 year reign of Messiah, will you keep it or not?

Isayah 66:21-24, “And from them too I shall take for priests – for Lĕwites,” declares יהוה. For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand. And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה..."
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I have a question for everyone who thinks the 7th day Sabbath is abolished in any way, not say it equals salvation, but to all those who say it gone, altered, abolished, whatever...

Can you explain what Daniel 7:25 means, particularly "zemawn"

and

when the Sabbath is kept in the Kingdom shown here during the 1,000 year reign of Messiah, will you keep it or not?

Isayah 66:21-24, “And from them too I shall take for priests – for Lĕwites,” declares יהוה. For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make stand before Me,” declares יהוה, “so your seed and your name shall stand. And it shall be that from New moon to New moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” declares יהוה..."
if you , once again, assume , that Daniel was speaking of Rome, then you can attach the council meetings in the 300's to the theory that the catholic church is the beast.

Christ followers were already meeting on the first day of the week, in the 1st century , and when John said he was in the Sprit on the Lord's day, he did not say Sabbath.
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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if you , once again, assume , that Daniel was speaking of Rome, then you can attach the council meetings in the 300's to the theory that the catholic church is the beast.

Christ followers were already meeting on the first day of the week, in the 1st century , and when John said he was in the Sprit on the Lord's day, he did not say Sabbath.
Matthew 12:8
8, For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day

Revelations 1:10
10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's (G2960) day, (G2250) and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet."

Tuesday! no Thursday! Hmmm it does not mention what day.... Ohh I know John was carried away in the SPirit to the days of the Return of the Messiah!

Also what would make it Sunday? The Messiah resurrected late Sabbath:

By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1st day/ Sunday





Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”





“it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised”





Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”





“very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here”





Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master יהושע.”





“on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master יהושע”





John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”





“on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb”
 

Shamah

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Jan 6, 2018
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if you , once again, assume , that Daniel was speaking of Rome, then you can attach the council meetings in the 300's to the theory that the catholic church is the beast.

Christ followers were already meeting on the first day of the week, in the 1st century , and when John said he was in the Sprit on the Lord's day, he did not say Sabbath.
we are on the Gregorian calendar. have been since 1752.
You rascal...

Ohh Dan 7:25!
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
The Rest to which Israel was to enter was the Gospel. This is testified via verses 1 and 2. If they and we enter into this rest; the Gospel GOD speaks of the Sabbath again; verses 3 and 4.

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith ( Christ; the Word in our hearts and mouths; that is the Word of Faith in which we preach) in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For HE spake in a certain place (Mt Sinai in the giving of the Commandments; because that is the instance to which GOD spoke of the Seventh Day) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE speaks), If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (rebellious hardhearted stiff necked disobedience): Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore (back to verses 3 and 4) a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks).

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!
(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)
No contradiction. Two different rests being distinguished by two different Greek words. Sentence structure makes a distinction between the two also.

There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatismo; a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (Kataplausis; the Gospel), he also hath ceases from his own works, as God did from HIS ( on the Seventh Day because in this place again GOD speaks)
Two different rests. The Gospel and a Sabbath keeping as was kept like GOD. If you follow the sentence structure you will notice a Sabbath keeping remains to the people of GOD. Those who have entered into there rest; the Gospel also cease from from their own works as GOD did from HIS.

As was said above As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. We cease from work like GOD did. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ LIKE WE DO. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual!

Jesus' work was a Spiritual work done to minister to others and further the Gospel. Not a physical work which purpose was for himself; a Spiritual one.
Hebrews 4, v.11, the writer sums up what he has been saying about the rest- he says strive to enter the rest. does one have to strive to enter the Sabbath? no.

the writer is clearly pointing to faith in Christ, not a literal Sabbath keeping.
No that rest is katapausis; the Gospel. As is the Rest mention in verse 10. Verse nine's rest is Sabbatismos; Sabbath keeping and should be translated so because that is how translates and it would add less confusion for some.

Two separate rests being spoken of in Hebrews 4. The Gospel rest and the the Seventh Day Sabbath. A distinction is being made between the two in verses 9 and 10. A rest (Sabbath keeping) that remains and a rest (the Gospel) that has been entered. The ceasing from their own works as GOD did from HIS is something that is being done in addition to entering into the Rest (Gospel).

There remaineth therefore a rest (a Sabbath Keeping) to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour (be diligent) therefore to enter into that rest (the Gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (hard heart; stiff necked disobedience). For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
(Heb 4:9-12 KJV)

As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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As GOD did from HIS is a DIRECT COMPARISON. He that has entered into his rest; the Gospel. Ceases from his own work like GOD did from HIS. GOD did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ. GOD rested the Seventh Day from all HIS work which HE had made. Physical labor not Spiritual! So we rest from our physical labor also.
It worries me that it can be said "God did not cease from trying to work out HIS own righteousness outside of Christ."

Do we worship an 'unrighteous' God?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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You rascal...

Ohh Dan 7:25!
many historians and scholars say that Israel came back to the promised land on the Babylonian calendar.

but, you see, this what you and the other Hebrew roots guys do- you drag everything back to the O.T., while we are saved by Faith in Christ, not by works , nor Sabbath keeping.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Matthew 12:8
8, For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day

Revelations 1:10
10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's (G2960) day, (G2250) and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet."

Tuesday! no Thursday! Hmmm it does not mention what day.... Ohh I know John was carried away in the SPirit to the days of the Return of the Messiah!

Also what would make it Sunday? The Messiah resurrected late Sabbath:

By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1st day/ Sunday





Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”





“it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised”





Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”





“very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here”





Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master יהושע.”





“on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master יהושע”





John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”





“on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb”
many interpretations say " at dawn on the first day of the week ". the greek word for dawn means dawn. the other Gospels say the women went the next morning.

so. no, Jesus did not resurrect on the Sabbath. this is just another way to bow down to the idol of Sabbath.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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="Cee, post: 3689246, member: 61913"]Sure bro.. but you also take Scriptures out of context. Jesus saying doing what I command you, but then putting the "commands" of Jesus in whatever you want them to be. Instead of letting the letter tell you directly.
You make the claim that I am taking scripture out of context, when the scripture I post "refutes" your preaching, not God's and not my understanding. I can't accept your belief that I'm wrong just because you say so, or the Pope, or some other religious man. Surely you can understand that.

I think a lot of people would be better off if the OT wasn't included with the NT. It seems like it's difficult for people to reconcile. It's a completely 100% a different covenant. And in fact, the OT has multiple covenants in it with different types of people.
This statement of yours is especially revealing as to how you feel about the God of the Bible. And truly, if you could just silence the Prophets like the Mainstream Preachers of their time did. You would be free to preach and create whatever religion you wanted without those pesky, burdensome judgments of God getting in your way.

This is not new Cee. We have an example of this very thing in the very beginning of the Gospel of Christ. Shall we not consider any of examples Paul said was written for our admonition?

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Notice that the prefect deceiver uses God's Word to deceive Eve. Not all of God's Word mind you, He doesn't use EVERY WORD of God, only those Words He can use to further his deception. This is an important Biblical fact of this example.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Here is another example of how the perfect deceiver pulls people away from God. He convinces them they are ALREADY SAVED. That THEY are all set. That they don't have to "DO" anything. Because they shall surely not die. The Pharisees were convinced of this, not by the God they claimed to follow, but by their "father". So when Jesus came to expose their false religion, they rejected Him because they were convinced they were already saved. Already "children of Abraham". It's in your Bible Cee.

Then, the perfect liar, went in for the kill.

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, (in the day you reject His Command and listen to another voice) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The perfect Deceiver convinced Eve that God gave her the command because He wanted her ignorant and imprisoned by burdensome Laws. That He didn't really have her best interest at heart, so the serpent was there to help Eve, to "FREE her from those horrible burdensome instructions which were making her BLIND.

These were written for us Cee. And there is only one spirit out there who wants you to ignore these Holy Word's of God. My "agenda" is to share these Word's and hope you will consider them, in "love of the Brethren".

The Messiah didn't come to free me from God's instructions, He came to free me from DEATH. At least this is what the Gospel teaches.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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="Cee, post: 3689339, member: 61913"]I think a lot of people would be better off if the OT wasn't included with the NT. It seems like it's difficult for people to reconcile. It's a completely 100% a different covenant. And in fact, the OT has multiple covenants in it with different types of people.

Yes, God doesn't change, but His agreements with us do. If you don't believe me, take a look at the commands in Leviticus and see if those still apply. to you. Here's ONE: "Don't shave your beard." Did you shave today? If so, you agree that God has different agreements with us.
Can you share with us the Leviticus scriptures which command all of Israel to shave their beards? You made the claim, but it is customary to post the scripture so we can determine if you are telling us what the God of the Bible instructed, or just what you believe.

Just a post of the scripture showing how you came to your statement would be fine.

Thanks in advance.
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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nice try at a spin, but negative result. as much as John talked about commands in this letter, he said the commands were to believe in the name of the Son and love one another. he never mentioned Sabbath. more false assuming in implying this is what he meant.
Is there another Lord than the Lord of the Sabbath that we are to believe in?
 

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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AMEN....either receive Christ 100% by faith while trusting his promises, power and work on your behalf or taint it by interjecting self via works, religious observances etc. <----Cainology, workers for and Pharisees......

Personally, I completely trust the work Jesus Christ did for me when I was 20 years old. While I seek to honor Him with good works, I know that I can never "out give" God.
 

star

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You mention His Word, prayer, meditation, worship time, praise time. These are all good and we should do them, but why do you not mention things that have to do with pure religion and the law Christ?

Or do you think His Word, prayer, meditation, worship time and praise time are what the bible refers to as pure religion, and the law of Christ?

I believe in order to grow my relationship with God and to be used as His instrument, I must have prayer, meditation, worship time, Word study time and praise time.

I don't believe in "religion" and the Law has passed and we have a New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Purity can only come from yielding our hearts and minds to the leading of the Holy Spirit. No one is pure without that.