Not By Works

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Lillywolf

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Aug 29, 2018
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Revelation 12:17, 14:12 and 22:14 are direct words of the Messiah post resurrection.

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושע Messiah."

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.”
I like those scriptures as answer to my question.
I think they demonstrate that just as Jesus said, he did not come to abolish but fulfill the law. The law's certain parts are still in place. Thank you again. :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I like those scriptures as answer to my question.
I think they demonstrate that just as Jesus said, he did not come to abolish but fulfill the law. The law's certain parts are still in place. Thank you again. :)
Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
I can see how He is the "Fulfillment" of the Law regarding the Priesthood the bible says He changed. But how does His death "fulfill" "Though shall not commit Adultery"? Of Feast of Atonement? Or "Thou shall not create an image of God in the likeness of anything".

How can I accept Him as Savior if I don't understand Passover? I think to deceiver has used to sentence to cause a lot of confusion between the difference of the Word's "fulfill" and "Destroy". They don't mean the same thing.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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and not once have I said works/obedience saves, yet the saints do keep the commandments as shown in these 2 passages.
I've said numerous times that to "keep" (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments is descriptive of the saints (1 John 2:3). From multiple posts it sure comes across as if you are implying that works/obedience saves. I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who agreed with me when I said man is saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) and he claimed that he does not believe that man is saved by works, yet after discussing it deeper, it turns out he does believe that man is saved by "these" works and just not "those" works and didn't even seem to realize that he does believe that man is saved by works. :oops:

So why is there such a battle against anyone who would promote keeping His Commands?
It comes down to which Commands and for what purpose and also what it means to "keep" His Commands. The most extreme ERRONEOUS statement that I have ever heard in regards to keeping His Commands is found below by a former member of CC:

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."

Of course that statement above is absolutely FALSE! :eek: Obeying the 10 commandments is not the plan of salvation. If it were, then nobody would be saved because nobody has perfectly obeyed the 10 commandments, EXCEPT JESUS.

Also if the Commands/Law is written in the heart why do people accuse you for standing by it?
I usually get attacked by those who are zealous about keeping the Sabbath day (even though it's not binding on the Church under the New Covenant - Colossians 2:16-17) and such people confidently and self righteously believe they will receive eternal life based on obeying the law. I have been accused of following my own religious traditions by these misguided teachers of the law who pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" yet I have always stood by the true gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). I never hear my accusers mention anything about that, but they sure like to continuously talk about the Sabbath, the 10 Commandments and the law in general. :unsure:
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if Jesus did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I can see how He is the "Fulfillment" of the Law regarding the Priesthood the bible says He changed. But how does His death "fulfill" "Though shall not commit Adultery"? Of Feast of Atonement? Or "Thou shall not create an image of God in the likeness of anything".

How can I accept Him as Savior if I don't understand Passover? I think to deceiver has used to sentence to cause a lot of confusion between the difference of the Word's "fulfill" and "Destroy". They don't mean the same thing.
Your adding to the word. It does not say he fulfilled the law concerning the priesthood. It says he fulfilled the law.

The law is an entity the Jews were bound to. And they were told if they did not fulfill it all. They were cursed. Jesus did what you can not do. He fulfilled it for you. All of it.

1. He never sinned, fulfilling the requirement of the law
2. As a perfect lamb, He because the sacrificial lamb.

Your self righteousnes stinks my friend.. God does nto consider it an aroma, he considers it a stench!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if Jesus did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today.

yes, this is simple truth, simple logic .

but, the sadly, until they truly come to Christ, and trust Him for salvation, the judeaizers cannot see and accept this simple truth.

that is why, as I said in the Sabbath thread, I am moving on from them. it is just going in circles and getting nowhere.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I think Paul summed up what every Christian faces about himself.

Romans 7 NIV
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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d...,

Isn't that the reason G-d gave us forgiveness thru grace created by Christs' sacrifice on the Cross...He knew we weaklings would brake His commandments...?

That is what scriptures tells me.
where sin abounds, grace abounds the more....<--written unto believers
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
Exactly............the law was taken out of the way and NAILED to the cross....we are no longer bound by it or under it......WHY is that? BECAUSE the righteousness of the 2nd ADAM, JESUS has been put to our account b faith WITHOUT the deeds and or works of the law.....what they fail to understand is that NO MAN keeps the law no matter how they may think they do or try......ALL humanity has broken the law and IS GUILTY under the law.....exactly why the NEW COVENANT was ratified by the death of CHRIST on the cross and exactly why HIS WORDS must be viewed under the light and fact that he was born, lived and died under the LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT of GRACE!!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Exactly............the law was taken out of the way and NAILED to the cross....we are no longer bound by it or under it......WHY is that? BECAUSE the righteousness of the 2nd ADAM, JESUS has been put to our account b faith WITHOUT the deeds and or works of the law.....what they fail to understand is that NO MAN keeps the law no matter how they may think they do or try......ALL humanity has broken the law and IS GUILTY under the law.....exactly why the NEW COVENANT was ratified by the death of CHRIST on the cross and exactly why HIS WORDS must be viewed under the light and fact that he was born, lived and died under the LAW which ratified the NEW COVENANT of GRACE!!
Its amazing he slams so much on pharisees, when he is just like them.. lol
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Your adding to the word. It does not say he fulfilled the law concerning the priesthood. It says he fulfilled the law.

The law is an entity the Jews were bound to. And they were told if they did not fulfill it all. They were cursed. Jesus did what you can not do. He fulfilled it for you. All of it.

1. He never sinned, fulfilling the requirement of the law
2. As a perfect lamb, He because the sacrificial lamb.


Your self righteousnes stinks my friend.. God does nto consider it an aroma, he considers it a stench!
How have I added to His Word?

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Messiah said He came to "fulfill".

Not that He has already fulfilled "ALL" because even a child knows there are things which He has not yet done, that He will do. If he has not yet "Fulfilled" all that is written about Him, then "ALL" has not been fulfilled yet?

How is this not true according to His Word?

He did "Fulfill" some things, like changing His Priesthood, providing the perfect sacrifice. So these Prophesies from the Law and Prophets He did already Fulfill. But He has not yet come back to gather the Wheat and burn the Tares?

How is this not True according to His Word?

So my questions are very valid. Is the Christ dead? Did He not rise from the dead and is still living? Is He not interceding with God on His Peoples behalf? Has He accomplished "ALL THINGS" that were written about Him?

"He fulfilled it for me" you preach. How did He fulfill "thou shall not create an image of God in the likeness of anything on earth", How did He "fulfill for me" "Thou shall not commit adultery"?

You can answer the valid questions, or you can just insult. It's your choice.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Did Jesus ever speak of things in the law after his resurrection?
Hi Lillywolf, I cannot find a scripture verse that say's or implies that Jesus spoke of the Law after His resurrection. But what we do know is that he revealed a lot to us about the Law and the Pharisees in the Sermon on the Mount. "He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill the Law."

Maybe someone out there can shed some light on this subject for you...:)

The Fulfillment of the Law

Matthew5:17,18
17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18) For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Did jesus fulfill the law or not? What part has henot fulfilled that we are still boundby?
Matthew 5:17: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18.Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle [the tiniest marks in the Hebrew script] will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”

Jesus embodied the law, he magnified the law of the Father.
Isaiah 42:21: “The LORD is well pleased for His righteousness’ sake; He will exalt the law and make it honorable.”
That doesn't mean the entirety of God's law no longer applies.
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19) And as all of Matthew 5 recalls for us to this day in Jesus' reiteration of the, thou shalt not's.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. If the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if Jesus did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today.
Matt. 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


You can preach this verse is the Messiah removing the Law and Prophets. But "All" has not yet been fulfilled, and it is you, not the Christ, who implies that it has.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Listen carefully, your deceitful twist of what many say prove that the spirit of God does not lead you.....as simple as......seriously, you should get on your knees and trust JESUS biblically before it is too late, and furthermore, if you cannot be honest with what I have said and or cannot quit deceitfully changing what I have said like Satan did in the garden with God's word<---NEVER address me again.......you are as deceitful as they come!
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