He has been raging on that point for months... he is not about to give it up just yet 
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Amen....I got tired of him lying and accusing so he went to ignoreville...about ready to put another bloviator there as well......!
Sounds like you have a good group of people. The body of believers I am a part of are also wonderfully involved in the work of our great God. I am so thankful for that! I think this story is meant to be somewhat of a spiritual parable. The belief that simple saying “I have faith in Jesus Christ” is enough to stand in heaven one day is not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Rather He taught in Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Like the man in the story, there are many today who preach that Christians have a claim to Eternal life if they will but admit He is the Christ. Repentance and personal accountability are excluded. The story is meant to demonstrate how spiritually restrictive that false teaching is. In fact, like the man in the story, it will lead to a very unnecessary spiritual death.
So the question should be answered, what do we need to feel (faith) and do (works) to receive eternal life? What do you believe the Savior taught on that subject?
I think this story is meant to be somewhat of a spiritual parable. The belief that simple saying “I have faith in Jesus Christ” is enough to stand in heaven one day is not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Rather He taught in Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Like the man in the story, there are many today who preach that Christians have a claim to Eternal life if they will but admit He is the Christ. Repentance and personal accountability are excluded. The story is meant to demonstrate how spiritually restrictive that false teaching is. In fact, like the man in the story, it will lead to a very unnecessary spiritual death.
So the question should be answered, what do we need to feel (faith) and do (works) to receive eternal life? What do you believe the Savior taught on that subject?
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In Galatians 3:13, Paul clearly states - Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a "curse" (Greek word - katara) for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.”
Jesus died on a cross for the sins of every man and woman. The scriptures say that Jesus was perfect. Jesus was sinless. We deserved to die because of our sins. Jesus did not. Therefore, when Jesus willingly died a physical death on a cross in our place – for our sins – He became a “curse” for us "in that sense" in order to satisfy divine justice.
In 2 Corinthians 5:21, we read - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Again, that is the "sense" in which Jesus became a curse for us. *That is not the same thing as calling Jesus "accursed" (Greek - anathema) in 1 Corinthians 12:3.
In 1 Corinthians 12:3, we read - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed.. which "accursed" (Greek word - anathema) here would pronounce Jesus to be an impostor, and therefore justly punished with death, which is not the sense of the word "cursed" in Galatians 3:13 so enough with the FALSE ACCUSATIONS!
The Lord rebuke you for SLANDER!
Jesus died on a cross for the sins of every man and woman. The scriptures say that Jesus was perfect. Jesus was sinless. We deserved to die because of our sins. Jesus did not. Therefore, when Jesus willingly died a physical death on a cross in our place – for our sins – He became a “curse” for us "in that sense" in order to satisfy divine justice.
In 2 Corinthians 5:21, we read - For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Again, that is the "sense" in which Jesus became a curse for us. *That is not the same thing as calling Jesus "accursed" (Greek - anathema) in 1 Corinthians 12:3.
In 1 Corinthians 12:3, we read - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed.. which "accursed" (Greek word - anathema) here would pronounce Jesus to be an impostor, and therefore justly punished with death, which is not the sense of the word "cursed" in Galatians 3:13 so enough with the FALSE ACCUSATIONS!
The Lord rebuke you for SLANDER!
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John 6:47 Truly truly I say to you , whoever believes has eternal life....
What is believing... Not as the devil believed , for he hates Christ , Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe... ( Took from the web ) But when the Holy Spirit begins to work in our lives we're not deceived like that anymore. We recognize that our value is nothing compared to Jesus' value. Instead, we just want to know him, be with him, enjoy him, follow him, and celebrate him. That transition—that change of heart, so that we are now looking away from ourselves to Christ and embracing all that God is for us in him—that is what faith is. That is what belief is. That is what saves.
Me.......> Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ..
Ephesians 2:10 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
The Holy Spirit leads us , directs our path , calls us to His good works , puts people in our path to witness to , He gives us the urge to do His good works , we as children of God are not the leeches that are sucking the branches , we are truly the ones in Christ , God knows who are His , those who shout Lord Lord did we not , they are the ones that are cut off and thrown into the fire , for the children of God are sealed , we have already a place reserved for us in heaven , praise the LORD and thank You Jesus...xox...
What is believing... Not as the devil believed , for he hates Christ , Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe... ( Took from the web ) But when the Holy Spirit begins to work in our lives we're not deceived like that anymore. We recognize that our value is nothing compared to Jesus' value. Instead, we just want to know him, be with him, enjoy him, follow him, and celebrate him. That transition—that change of heart, so that we are now looking away from ourselves to Christ and embracing all that God is for us in him—that is what faith is. That is what belief is. That is what saves.
Me.......> Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ..
Ephesians 2:10 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
The Holy Spirit leads us , directs our path , calls us to His good works , puts people in our path to witness to , He gives us the urge to do His good works , we as children of God are not the leeches that are sucking the branches , we are truly the ones in Christ , God knows who are His , those who shout Lord Lord did we not , they are the ones that are cut off and thrown into the fire , for the children of God are sealed , we have already a place reserved for us in heaven , praise the LORD and thank You Jesus...xox...
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Jesus was a real rebel in his day
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Most likely..even in todays society..Jesus would be rejected by many churches as well..if Jesus came into churches incognito..wonder what would happen? Hmmm
And yes..pride was what was a strong componant when satan was cast out of heaven..hence "pride goeth before a fall"lol..and i also think pride is a big one why people dont go to church or become saved...
And yes..pride was what was a strong componant when satan was cast out of heaven..hence "pride goeth before a fall"lol..and i also think pride is a big one why people dont go to church or become saved...
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Most likely..even in todays society..Jesus would be rejected by many churches as well..if Jesus came into churches incognito..wonder what would happen? Hmmm
And yes..pride was what was a strong componant when satan was cast out of heaven..hence "pride goeth before a fall"lol..and i also think pride is a big one why people dont go to church or become saved...
And yes..pride was what was a strong componant when satan was cast out of heaven..hence "pride goeth before a fall"lol..and i also think pride is a big one why people dont go to church or become saved...
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@eternally-gratefull ..btw..im preaching to the choir here..i came from a family of strong proud stubborn germans...Gods still working on me in that area
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@eternally-gratefull ..btw..im preaching to the choir here..i came from a family of strong proud stubborn germans...Gods still working on me in that area
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Sounds like you have a good group of people. The body of believers I am a part of are also wonderfully involved in the work of our great God. I am so thankful for that! I think this story is meant to be somewhat of a spiritual parable. The belief that simple saying “I have faith in Jesus Christ” is enough to stand in heaven one day is not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Rather He taught in Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Like the man in the story, there are many today who preach that Christians have a claim to Eternal life if they will but admit He is the Christ. Repentance and personal accountability are excluded. The story is meant to demonstrate how spiritually restrictive that false teaching is. In fact, like the man in the story, it will lead to a very unnecessary spiritual death.
So the question should be answered, what do we need to feel (faith) and do (works) to receive eternal life? What do you believe the Savior taught on that subject?
I think this story is meant to be somewhat of a spiritual parable. The belief that simple saying “I have faith in Jesus Christ” is enough to stand in heaven one day is not the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Rather He taught in Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Like the man in the story, there are many today who preach that Christians have a claim to Eternal life if they will but admit He is the Christ. Repentance and personal accountability are excluded. The story is meant to demonstrate how spiritually restrictive that false teaching is. In fact, like the man in the story, it will lead to a very unnecessary spiritual death.
So the question should be answered, what do we need to feel (faith) and do (works) to receive eternal life? What do you believe the Savior taught on that subject?
I understand the gist of your parable. However, when you say "what do we need "to feel and do" to receive eternal life I think we are not on the same page. Eternal life is a free gift and cannot be merited, Jesus gives His followers Eternal Life." John10:27-30. "I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life."
I see from your profile that you believe our eternal salvation is a "process." I believe that our "sanctification", which is our daily walk and being set apart for the work of the ministry, is a "process", growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ is a life long pursuit. Praise God for the precious blood bought gift of our Savior Jesus Christ.
God bless!
John10:27-30
27) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all;
no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30) I and the Father are one.”
Epheasians2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
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I am not sure who you are talking to, but here is a suggestion on how you man approach him:
VCO can suggest, how about just Establishing a REAL, Inner, Personal, LOVE Relationship, with JESUS CHRIST as YOUR intimate REAL LORD, meaning MASTER. Instead of that Lutheran Dogma (or Catholic Dogma), that has NO POWER to Save You.
These verses in this Example, had their DOGMA too, and all that religion was a Waist, because they NEVER had that Inner, Personal, LOVE RELATIONSHIP with HIM. I know what I am talking about, I used be Lutheran, and I was NOT SAVED until I Lovingly SURRENDERED to HIM, after my third attempt at Suicide at 29 years of age. Yes, I am involved in an Evangelical Style of Church now.
Matthew 7:21-23 (NRSV)
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?'
23 Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.'
As far as the Armenian vs. Calvinist ARGUMENT, as far as I am concerned, ENDED 40 years ago, when most of us Evangelicals found the Truth was somewhere in the MIDDLE, so those two opposite Animals are Dead.
VCO can suggest, how about just Establishing a REAL, Inner, Personal, LOVE Relationship, with JESUS CHRIST as YOUR intimate REAL LORD, meaning MASTER. Instead of that Lutheran Dogma (or Catholic Dogma), that has NO POWER to Save You.
These verses in this Example, had their DOGMA too, and all that religion was a Waist, because they NEVER had that Inner, Personal, LOVE RELATIONSHIP with HIM. I know what I am talking about, I used be Lutheran, and I was NOT SAVED until I Lovingly SURRENDERED to HIM, after my third attempt at Suicide at 29 years of age. Yes, I am involved in an Evangelical Style of Church now.
Matthew 7:21-23 (NRSV)
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name?'
23 Then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; go away from me, you evildoers.'
As far as the Armenian vs. Calvinist ARGUMENT, as far as I am concerned, ENDED 40 years ago, when most of us Evangelicals found the Truth was somewhere in the MIDDLE, so those two opposite Animals are Dead.
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Hello, I joined the conversation late and would like to see this Creed that you guys are talking about. Where can I find it? Can someone post it to me if its short? If its the Apostles' creed I agree with it yes.
I also must say that its a sad state in christianity when there are 3554 pages (which I dont got time to read) of debate about something the Bible clearly states in many places:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
2 Timothy 1:9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Romans 3:20 For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28 For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Titus 3:5 he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Etc! Yet the debate is ongoing?
I also must say that its a sad state in christianity when there are 3554 pages (which I dont got time to read) of debate about something the Bible clearly states in many places:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
2 Timothy 1:9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Romans 3:20 For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28 For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Titus 3:5 he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Etc! Yet the debate is ongoing?
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