Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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Not you, works/grace was an oxymoron from ben hur. my internet went down and I was off almost 2 hrs. and so I made myself busy and had to go back and check
What a terrible oxymoron, works and grace, wow you must get dizzy reading the bible with all these oxymorons jumping out of the pages.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Benhur, good works will not save you nor will they keep you saved. You are professing a completely false gospel, you need to repent and turn back to God; "The righteous shall live by faith."

benhur, your gospel is something you have concocted in your own mind. Rarely will you bring up the Cross and how Jesus suffered and died for the forgiveness of our sins. It is shameful that you have been feeding all of us a load of false information for almost a year now, you are a deceiver and a liar.

Romans1:17
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
 
Sep 9, 2018
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What a terrible oxymoron, works and grace, wow you must get dizzy reading the bible with all these oxymorons jumping out of the pages.
________________ church. Hmmm?

I guess your church is so invisible that you can't even find it either . . . though I would be inclined to insert a <cult> church.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,460
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Anaheim, Cali.
Benhur, good works will not save you nor will they keep you saved. You are professing a completely false gospel, you need to repent and turn back to God; "The righteous shall live by faith."

benhur, your gospel is something you have concocted in your own mind. Rarely will you bring up the Cross and how Jesus suffered and died for the forgiveness of our sins. It is shameful that you have been feeding all of us a load of false information for almost a year now, you are a deceiver and a liar.

Romans1:17

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
I wouldn't jump to those conclusions as he may believe what he says. But being sincere doesn't make anyone right or correct. People do get sincerely misguided by good teachers with bad information all the time. It's sad to say but some are better at convincing others they know the correct way while actually they are wrong. George Washington was bled to death by a well meaning doctor who believed that poor George had bad blood. So he decided it would be a good idea to cut his throat and drain some out. Sincerity does not equal correctness.

It sounds ridiculous today but many practicing doctors believed the same nonsense just like work for grace is taught in many churches today only not in those words. Peace!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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I wouldn't jump to those conclusions as he may believe what he says. But being sincere doesn't make anyone right or correct. People do get sincerely misguided by good teachers with bad information all the time. It's sad to say but some are better at convincing others they know the correct way while actually they are wrong. George Washington was bled to death by a well meaning doctor who believed that poor George had bad blood. So he decided it would be a good idea to cut his throat and drain some out. Sincerity does not equal correctness.

It sounds ridiculous today but many practicing doctors believed the same nonsense just like work for grace is taught in many churches today only not in those words. Peace!
Hi Calibob, I understand what you are saying and you can be sympathetic to what benhur is saying; but not me he has been teaching his sugar coated social gospel on this forum for way to long.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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GOD's WORD we can all meditate on:



Romans 1:17 (HCSB)
17 For in it God’s righteousness is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith.

Romans 3:23-26 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.
26 ⌊God presented Him⌋ to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be righteous and declare righteous the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:27-28 (HCSB)
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By one of works? No, on the contrary, by a law of faith.
28 For we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.

Romans 5:1-2 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We have also obtained access through Him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

Romans 4:2-6 (ESV)
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:11 (TLB)
11 It wasn’t until later on, after God had promised to bless him because of his faith, that he was circumcised. The circumcision ceremony was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him just and good in his sight—before the ceremony took place. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who believe and are saved without obeying Jewish laws. We see, then, that those who do not keep these rules are justified by God through faith.

Romans 9:30-32 (HCSB)
30 What should we say then? Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained righteousness—namely the righteousness that comes from faith. {.NOTE: Paul did not consider us Spiritual Israelites. Graphed In does not mean we are Spiritual Israelites.}
31 But Israel, pursuing the law for righteousness, has not achieved ⌊the righteousness⌋ of the law.
32 Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

Romans 10:17 (HCSB)
17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ. {.Long before works.}

Romans 16:25 (NCV)
25 Glory to God who can make you strong in faith by the Good News that I tell people and by the message about Jesus Christ. The message about Christ is the secret that was hidden for long ages past but is now made known.


Like I said, those who believe SALVATION comes through Works of Righteousness, must HATE Romans.
Just like you yell about me not understanding your religion (OSAS), you don't understand mine either. I do not believe that works of righteousness will save you. It is Jesus that saves you, not your works of righteousness.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Hi Calibob, I understand what you are saying and you can be sympathetic to what benhur is saying; but not me he has been teaching his sugar coated social gospel on this forum for way to long.
You are the sugar coated version of salvation. You say all you have to do is believe and the Holy Spirit comes and does all that needs to be done. Jesus automatically inputs his righteousness on you and you automatically become as righteous as he is. You want to talk about sugar coating.

My verson of salvation is much tougher than your sugar coated salvation. In my version of salvation you have to live a similar life as Jesus lived, doing the kinds of works that he did. That, my fellow Christian is not sugar coating anything. It is going to be difficult to be saved in his kingdom. Where much is given, much is expected. Since you have been given much, Jesus expects you to be engaged in the Lord's work and if you do not produce fruit, even though you are in him (saved), you will lose your salvation. The scriptures do not sugar coat salvation either.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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You are the sugar coated version of salvation. You say all you have to do is believe and the Holy Spirit comes and does all that needs to be done. Jesus automatically inputs his righteousness on you and you automatically become as righteous as he is. You want to talk about sugar coating.

My verson of salvation is much tougher than your sugar coated salvation. In my version of salvation you have to live a similar life as Jesus lived, doing the kinds of works that he did. That, my fellow Christian is not sugar coating anything. It is going to be difficult to be saved in his kingdom. Where much is given, much is expected. Since you have been given much, Jesus expects you to be engaged in the Lord's work and if you do not produce fruit, even though you are in him (saved), you will lose your salvation. The scriptures do not sugar coat salvation either.
Complete nonsense, your fake gospel is not even believable. You are a deceiver and I do not believe one word that you are saying.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,460
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Hi Calibob, I understand what you are saying and you can be sympathetic to what benhur is saying; but not me he has been teaching his sugar coated social gospel on this forum for way to long.
To me the word liar would mean with intent to deceive. So if he believes what he is saying he would not be a liar but a false teacher. If he knows it is wrong then that's different. Either way he's wrong.
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
306
440
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Complete nonsense, your fake gospel is not even believable. You are a deceiver and I do not believe one word that you are saying.

Hes been told over and over again , and the true Gospel has been explained to him more times than I can count
Dont cast your pearls before swine truthtalk
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,460
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Hes been told over and over again , and the true Gospel has been explained to him more times than I can count
Dont cast your pearls before swine truthtalk
The mind is a tricky thing. When the subconscious cannot accept the truth it lies to the conscious mind (confabulates) to believe a false narrative that the conscious mind can accept like the Son of god died for me but I don't deserve it. so to make me feel better I'll make something up so I can feel better about my self like I can deserve it. Yes, that's the ticket and the :poop: just ooses out.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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And many will come before the Lord claiming the following:
a. I trusted totally in you Lord.
b. The Lord asks, how much fruit did you produce?
c. Answer: I was taught that you are saved without having to produce any fruit, all I had to do was trust in you, that you would input your righteousness on me and I would be saved from my sins.
d. The Lord asks, did you ever read John 15:2, I taught you to be productive or you would be taken away. I even purged those who produced, so they would produce more. It was important for you to be engaged in my works, to help me produce fruit for my kingdom. So I ask you, were you engaged in my work and produce fruit?
No one teaches the drivel you spout, but for sure your dogma matches the MANY....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,852
4,042
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If I do not believe 100% what you believe it does not mean I worship a different Jesus than you do. It means there is 1 Jesus that we believe in, and worship, but think differently about some aspects of his life and doctrines.

You are the one that said:

"There does not have to be agreement on any particular doctrine, but we can be in harmony concerning Jesus Christ. We believe in him and we are brothers in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I will never, as you have said, agree 100% of what you believe, but we can shake hands about Jesus, and commune at the same sacrament table."

AND all you have to do is ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, for us to TELL IF YOU WORSHIP THE SAME JESUS AS WE DO.

You are SO WRONG, there is only ONE REAL JESUS CHRIST, and hundreds of FALSE JESUS CHRISTS, made up in the minds of MEN.

Matthew 24:24-25 (NASB)
24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.


Mormons - Believe in a False Jesus Christ.

Jehovah Witnesses - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

Christian Science Church - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

The Baha'i Faith - Believes in a False Jesus Christs.

Muslims - Believe in a False Jesus Christ.

Children of God/The Family - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

Unitarian Universalists - Believe in a False Jesus Christ.

Oneness Pentecostals - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

New Age Movement - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

Unity School of Christianity - Believes in a False Jesus Christ.

Jim Jones Followers - Believed in a False Jesus Christ.

David Koresh's Followers - Believed in a False Jesus Christ.

Haven's Gate members - Believed in a False Jesus Christ.

Etc., etc., etc.


PLEASE answer all the questions TRUTHFULLY so that we all can see if you Believe in the real Jesus Christ, or a Counterfeit Christ.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,259
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If I do not believe 100% what you believe it does not mean I worship a different Jesus than you do. It means there is 1 Jesus that we believe in, and worship, but think differently about some aspects of his life and doctrines.
benhur yes some people worship a "different Jesus." The fact that you cannot see there are "false christ's" in the world is very disturbing, open your spiritual eyes, if possible.

As Ljs has said, you have been given the "True Gospel" over and over on this forum and you still refuse to accept the truth. So now it is just like the bible say's, do not throw your pearls before swine.

Matthew24:24
For "false Christs" and "false prophets" will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.​
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
10,852
4,042
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Just like you yell about me not understanding your religion (OSAS), you don't understand mine either. I do not believe that works of righteousness will save you. It is Jesus that saves you, not your works of righteousness.

No, it is you that totally does not understand, you I understand, EXCEPT YOUR DENOMINATION, and it is Certainly a Religion.

I on the other hand, DO NOT PRACTICE A RELIGION. I have and teach a REAL relationship with the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Jesus condemned organized religion which binds the hands of men behind their backs to religious idiocy....thanks be to God for setting us free from legalism, Cainology, Phariseeism and all the other give the dog a bone, hoop jumping, street organ, monkey dancing dogmas......!
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,268
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Jesus condemned organized religion which binds the hands of men behind their backs to religious idiocy....thanks be to God for setting us free from legalism, Cainology, Phariseeism and all the other give the dog a bone, hoop jumping, street organ, monkey dancing dogmas......!
Whats all this "isms" dogma? Lol