Not By Works

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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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You’re not a Christian are you. It’s not a question.
WOW.. So he isn't a Christian because he didn't invite the mormons in? I don't even bother opening the door. I ask who it is, and then say, "sorry I have my own religion". Does that make ME not a Christian either?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
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Free from sin. Free from burning in the lake of fire. Free from being enslaved by the ruler of this world.. Jesus IS the truth. And only His death could set us free.
As I was reading your post which I obviously agree with, it made me think of the religions that offer freedom, but in reality they seal the deal when it comes to the lake of fire...they peddle a false gospel and when one believes it they become two fold the child of hell.....it makes me think of that guy in the "History of the World Part 1" put out by Mel Brooks in the 80's....He was taking dead birds out of a cage and saying "fly be free" and as he chunked them out the window they would fall to the ground because they were already dead............
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
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Let us warn you about this forum. Unfortunately it is the most spiteful, contentious forum on the entire site. You need tough skin and your big girl pants on in here.. :(

Now, if you mean we're supposed to obey God by doing good works, you're correct. :) BUT we are not to do them for the sole purpose of gaining or keeping salvation, nor to try and earn our way into heaven..
I agree with you except for KEEPING salvation.
I do believe the bible states we are to do good deeds to keep our salvation.

Nothing is expected from those that do not believe in God...they're already lost.
However, something IS expected from us, those that are saved and know Jesus.

How else could one explain these verses, and there are plenty more...

Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

It certainly sounds from the above (and many more verses) that one could fall away from salvation...
Paul and Peter are saying this...not me.


Peter spent over 3 years with Jesus...should we not pay attention to what he writes to us?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,104
113
WOW.. So he isn't a Christian because he didn't invite the mormons in? I don't even bother opening the door. I ask who it is, and then say, "sorry I have my own religion". Does that make ME not a Christian either?

HAHAH what about JW's........I light both false religions up....they try to peddle their wares to me and I start quoting scripture and they cannot wait to get back in their car......true story....one time two Mormons came to my door and you could tell one was in training and the other was the "experienced one"......I laid into him with the truth to the extent when they left the "trainee" was questioning EVERYTHING that the Mormon "CHIRCH" peddles......emphasis upon the "I" in Chirch...............
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,104
113
I agree with you except for KEEPING salvation.
I do believe the bible states we are to do good deeds to keep our salvation.

Nothing is expected from those that do not believe in God...they're already lost.
However, something IS expected from us, those that are saved and know Jesus.

How else could one explain these verses, and there are plenty more...

Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

It certainly sounds from the above (and many more verses) that one could fall away from salvation...
Paul and Peter are saying this...not me.


Peter spent over 3 years with Jesus...should we not pay attention to what he writes to us?
And you would be wrong....

OH FOOLISH GALATIANS who has BEWITCHED YOU....HAVING begun in the SPIRIT are you now made PERFECT by the flesh.

That right there is exactly what you say....SAVED by faith BUT kept BY works.....it is false
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
As I was reading your post which I obviously agree with, it made me think of the religions that offer freedom, but in reality they seal the deal when it comes to the lake of fire...they peddle a false gospel and when one believes it they become two fold the child of hell.....it makes me think of that guy in the "History of the World Part 1" put out by Mel Brooks in the 80's....He was taking dead birds out of a cage and saying "fly be free" and as he chunked them out the window they would fall to the ground because they were already dead............
And mormons are one who peddle that false gospel. I'm sooo glad I finally realized that they are a cult. Too bad it took decades for me to find out, though.. :/ I never knew they believe that they'll be gods and have their own planets someday. I did know about the special underwear, though.. lol
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I agree with you except for KEEPING salvation.
I do believe the bible states we are to do good deeds to keep our salvation.

Nothing is expected from those that do not believe in God...they're already lost.
However, something IS expected from us, those that are saved and know Jesus.

How else could one explain these verses, and there are plenty more...

Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

It certainly sounds from the above (and many more verses) that one could fall away from salvation...
Paul and Peter are saying this...not me.


Peter spent over 3 years with Jesus...should we not pay attention to what he writes to us?
No man keeps their salvation, your teaching is in error.

Neither of the texts teach a loss of personal salvation. In Peter falling from steadfastness is falling from steadfastness, not from being saved. You're reading things into the texts that are not there.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
HAHAH what about JW's........I light both false religions up....they try to peddle their wares to me and I start quoting scripture and they cannot wait to get back in their car......true story....one time two Mormons came to my door and you could tell one was in training and the other was the "experienced one"......I laid into him with the truth to the extent when they left the "trainee" was questioning EVERYTHING that the Mormon "CHIRCH" peddles......emphasis upon the "I" in Chirch...............
Yeah they are false floozies too..lol.. they used to come here sometimes. They would give me one of their tracts, invite me to church, and then leave..
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,104
113
Yeah they are false floozies too..lol.. they used to come here sometimes. They would give me one of their tracts, invite me to church, and then leave..
Every time I find their false dogma tracts in a public place....into the trash they go........another thing I despise....statues of MARY.........I despise them....
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,104
113
No man keeps their salvation, your teaching is in error.

Neither of the texts teach a loss of personal salvation. In Peter falling from steadfastness is falling from steadfastness, not from being saved. You're reading things into the texts that are not there.
Conflating issues........it always leads down the path to error.....
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
I agree with you except for KEEPING salvation.
I do believe the bible states we are to do good deeds to keep our salvation.

Nothing is expected from those that do not believe in God...they're already lost.
However, something IS expected from us, those that are saved and know Jesus.

How else could one explain these verses, and there are plenty more...

Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

It certainly sounds from the above (and many more verses) that one could fall away from salvation...
Paul and Peter are saying this...not me.


Peter spent over 3 years with Jesus...should we not pay attention to what he writes to us?

OK, those good works we do, are a by-product of faith and salvation. However, mowing someone's lawn won't save you, neither will serving a meal at a soup kitchen. And neither will shoveling a disabled person's driveway in winter. Good works DO NOT save us. They DO NOT get us into heaven. And they DO NOT KEEP us saved.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,786
2,559
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just read the whole letter to Titus. Paul , in my opinion , lays out grace and works and salvation in a great way.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
Every time I find their false dogma tracts in a public place....into the trash they go........another thing I despise....statues of MARY.........I despise them....
Up at Walmart, inside the bus stop, sometimes I find material there that is either from them or some such other religion..
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
some of us are not friends , some of us do not like each other.

and we all agree that we are supposed to obey. the disagreement is over what we are supposed to obey. the judeaizers say we have to keep the Law/Sabbath to be saved. some say that our obedience maintains our salvation. some say that if we not producing fruit, then we are not saved.

so, then there of us pushing the truth- the sermon of the mount is the standards of behavior that we Christ followers are to be striving to obey. we fall short but that is the goal.

hope this clarifies things a bit.
Thanks for this nice reply.

What are we supposed to obey? Jesus narrowed it down to loving God, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. If we don't love ourself, how could we love anyone else? He was the best psychiatrist!
Those 2 Great Commandments cover all the others...If we love God and others, we will follow the 10 commandments.

Keeping the law depends on what you mean by LAW. There were 3 types of law in the O.T.
Civil, ceremonial, moral.
The only law we have to keep is the moral law -- Jesus did away with the other two. This is commonly known theology - nothing new here.

I believe we're to observe Sunday since Jesus is our rest; however I DO understand those that observe Saturday. After all, the 4th commandment say to keep holy the Sabbath. Either day is fine with me...every day is the Lord's day, I just don't like it when I'm told I'm lost because of this.

As to salvation...our works certainly don't save us, but once we are saved, I DO believe we're to do good deeds and that this keeps us saved. Jesus said we will be judged by our works, so how could we justify that we won't be??

If we don't have works we have a dead faith, a faith that is worth nothing, as per James 2:17.
Also, if we don't have good fruit (which is another name for good works?) wouldn't that be some sign that there is something wrong?

Jesus said that we are to remain IN HIM because without Him we can do nothing...
so if we do nothing, that would mean we are NOT IN HIM.
John 15:5

As to the sermon on the Mount. Amen to that.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
40,770
13,104
113
just read the whole letter to Titus. Paul , in my opinion , lays out grace and works and salvation in a great way.
AMEN.....I will say that three of the biggest errors in bible study that leads one down a path of error are...

a. Failing to understand the context
b. Failing to understand the verbiage, verb tense and or the definition of words
c. Blending and Conflating two ideas into one
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
There is not a person on this thread that believes that we are NOT to obey God......the thread is about biblical salvation based entirely upon grace and faith. The bible is also clear...those who conflate FAITH with WORKS to gain, keep, embellish, top off or finish salvation are teaching that which is false.....Galatians is clear....to embellish faith with works to top off salvation or finish salvation equates to a gospel of a different kind with no power to save...a false gospel that is double cursed and all who believe it or push it are foolish and bewitched.

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE, but ACCORDING to his mercy has HE SAVED US <--past tense x 2

In the grace you are, HAVING BEEN SAVED BY FAITH, and that NOT of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God and NOT of works lest any man should boast.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

The problem is simple....people take JAMES out of context, ignore Paul and then conflate justification with ongoing sanctification which leads to a gospel of a different kind based upon a faith works blend.

AND your assessment is not entirely correct about the thread....but, and if you say something that any of us disagree with biblically we will call you on it...feel free to post away and enjoy the sword play
I'm not to sure I like sword play! I like calm discussions...but we'll see.

I agree that we are not saved by works. Works of righteousness could be taken to mean that we think we could do enough work to please God. This is false; God needs nothing from us - He is wholly sufficient.

How does someone conflate justification with sanctification?
J is an immediate one time happening.
S is on-going for our whole life.
Right?

So if sanctfictnis on-going, doesn't that mean we are to do the good deeds God desires us to our whole life? Ephesians 2:10

Doesn't this mean we DO have to KEEP our salvation?
And how would it be kept except by obeying?

(obedience does not mean we will ALWAYS obey).
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
Thanks for this nice reply.

What are we supposed to obey? Jesus narrowed it down to loving God, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. If we don't love ourself, how could we love anyone else? He was the best psychiatrist!
Those 2 Great Commandments cover all the others...If we love God and others, we will follow the 10 commandments.

Keeping the law depends on what you mean by LAW. There were 3 types of law in the O.T.
Civil, ceremonial, moral.
The only law we have to keep is the moral law -- Jesus did away with the other two. This is commonly known theology - nothing new here.

I believe we're to observe Sunday since Jesus is our rest; however I DO understand those that observe Saturday. After all, the 4th commandment say to keep holy the Sabbath. Either day is fine with me...every day is the Lord's day, I just don't like it when I'm told I'm lost because of this.

As to salvation...our works certainly don't save us, but once we are saved, I DO believe we're to do good deeds and that this keeps us saved. Jesus said we will be judged by our works, so how could we justify that we won't be??

If we don't have works we have a dead faith, a faith that is worth nothing, as per James 2:17.
Also, if we don't have good fruit (which is another name for good works?) wouldn't that be some sign that there is something wrong?

Jesus said that we are to remain IN HIM because without Him we can do nothing...
so if we do nothing, that would mean we are NOT IN HIM.
John 15:5

As to the sermon on the Mount. Amen to that.
OK, even BEFORE we are saved, we do good works, like those I mentioned in a previous post. But what you are in error on, is the part in red above, where you say that we're to do good works and that keeps us saved. Our FAITH and God's GRACE keep us saved. Works don't. We cannot earn our salvation by doing good works. Yes, He will take into account our works, but they have no bearing on our salvation.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
67,946
5,876
113
Thanks for this nice reply.

What are we supposed to obey? Jesus narrowed it down to loving God, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. If we don't love ourself, how could we love anyone else? He was the best psychiatrist!
Those 2 Great Commandments cover all the others...If we love God and others, we will follow the 10 commandments.

Keeping the law depends on what you mean by LAW. There were 3 types of law in the O.T.
Civil, ceremonial, moral.
The only law we have to keep is the moral law -- Jesus did away with the other two. This is commonly known theology - nothing new here.

I believe we're to observe Sunday since Jesus is our rest; however I DO understand those that observe Saturday. After all, the 4th commandment say to keep holy the Sabbath. Either day is fine with me...every day is the Lord's day, I just don't like it when I'm told I'm lost because of this.

As to salvation...our works certainly don't save us, but once we are saved, I DO believe we're to do good deeds and that this keeps us saved. Jesus said we will be judged by our works, so how could we justify that we won't be??

If we don't have works we have a dead faith, a faith that is worth nothing, as per James 2:17.
Also, if we don't have good fruit (which is another name for good works?) wouldn't that be some sign that there is something wrong?

Jesus said that we are to remain IN HIM because without Him we can do nothing...
so if we do nothing, that would mean we are NOT IN HIM.
John 15:5

As to the sermon on the Mount. Amen to that.

As for not doing good works, what about the ones who cannot talk or think for themselves? The ones who have no comprehension of anything? I'm talking about the severely mentally and physically delayed people, and people who are incapable of any works at all. Will God keep them out of heaven because they haven't done any good works? NOPE.

God will judge us on how faithful and obedient we are, not on how many good works, or lack thereof, we have done.