Not By Works

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VCO

VCO

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#76,221
Oct 14, 2013
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Argueless said:
Thank you Bill.

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.


The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.


Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?


Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?


Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?


Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)

Is it obedience to God to break the law?


Who then causes another person to sin?


...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9


...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6

God bless.
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Amazing, the way I see it is the one who warns about desception, is the one who has fallen for the deception of a False Teacher. AMAZING.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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J70x7 said:
James 2:14
What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?
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In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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J70x7 said:
James 2:17
So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
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"Faith without works is dead" (James 2:17-20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!
 
VCO

VCO

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star said:
Romans 3:10 King James Version (KJV)

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

What is so hard to understand about this verse? Works will not get us into heaven. Are we to do good works? Yes. Why? Because we are to serve the Lord and be His vessel on earth.
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AND above all, we are to LOVE HIM with the same kind of LOVE that HE sowed into our HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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preacher4truth said:
That sounds wonderful! Unity! Positivity! Love! :love:
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HAHHAHAH yeah....they don't like me too much....I tell him he is wrong and has been led astray..........I rarely see them........oh well......let's just all chunk the truth and sing Kum Ba Ya.........vomit!
 
VCO

VCO

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Argueless said:
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
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<><.🕇.><>

SALVATION happens at the LATEST when genuine BELIEF HAPPENS, NO LATER.

I think it HAPPENS WAY BEFORE THAT.

Romans 5:8-10 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

EVEN BEFORE THAT:

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

WHEN WERE OUR NAMES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE ? ? ? BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

You are CONFUSING SALVATION WITH SANCTIFICATION, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

SALVATION happens the as EARLY as our name were written in the BOOK OF LIFE before the Foundation of the World, or as late as the MOMENT WE FIRST GENUINELY BELIEVE IN CHRIST AS LORD (WHICH MEANS MASTER). WAY BEFORE ANY WORKS EVER ENTERS OUR MINDS.

AFTER YOU ARE SAVED, THEN YOU BEGIN THE SANCTIFICATION PROCESS, WHERE WE OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM, WE WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE LIKE HIM.

OBEDIENCE is PART OF THE LOVE THAT HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, John 14:15, & 1 John 5:3. That LOVE was the SEED in the GOOD SOIL OF OUR HEARTS, and WILL produce a HARVEST of the Same Kind of LOVE that was Sown there.

EVERYTHING that is Positive that happens to a Christian, after SALVATION, is part of the SPIRITUAL GROWTH, which is of the Sanctification Process, and the MANIFESTING OF LOVE, which spawns FROM GOD'S LOVE being planted into our HEARTS.


Hebrews 10:39 (NCV)
39 But we are not those who turn back and are lost. We are people who have faith and are saved.

Acts 2:47 (ASV)
47 praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to them day by day those that were saved.

Ephesians 2:5 (CSBBible)
5 made us alive with Christ even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 1:13-14 (HCSB)
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#76,232
GraceAndTruth said:
ditto to your brother.......the churches are filled with "edcated theologians"
I prefer to agree with Sproul or Gill...etc etc etc
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So your a follower of men, thats good to know, shows where your thinking comes from
 
VCO

VCO

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IsaiahX said:
Sin begins in the heart. Adam and Eve sinned whenever they decided to eat of the tree.
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But remember EVE was Deceived by Satan, and ADAM DELIBERATELY DID WHAT GOD TOLD HIM NOT TO DO. It is mostly ADAMS FAULT that we inherited the Sin Nature.
 
IsaiahX

IsaiahX

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Oct 28, 2018
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VCO said:
But remember EVE was Deceived by Satan, and ADAM DELIBERATELY DID WHAT GOD TOLD HIM NOT TO DO. It is mostly ADAMS FAULT that we inherited the Sin Nature.
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That appears to be true, especially seeing that Adam was around for longer than Eve, therefore knowing God better.
 
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