Not By Works

Studyman · Nov 21, 2018

Let me paraphrase for y0u.

"Many" will say unto Me in That Day, "Lord, Lord, didn't we honor you with our lips? Didn't we create an image of you in the likeness of a very handsome man. Didn't we place your name on Pagan festivals just like the Pope said?

Then I will declare unto them, depart from Me, I never knew you, you who practiced lawlessness.

I do believe in the Christ of the Bible, and His Words Post. I just don't believe in your religion.

mailmandan · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

Did God say that we are saved through faith, not works in Ephesians 2:8,9 or faith AND works? Does that equate to faith in Christ alone or faith and works? It's a rhetorical question. 1 Peter 1:4 - to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

Are the saints of God preserved FOREVER, or just temporarily? (Psalm 37:28)
Did Jesus say His sheep will NEVER perish or will perish? Will not be snatched from His hand or will be? (John 10:27-29)
These whom He justified, He also glorified. ALL of them or only some of them? (Romans 8:30)
Believers are sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption or just temporarily? (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).

Argueless · Nov 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

Did God say that we are saved through faith, not works in Ephesians 2:8,9 or faith AND works? Does that equate to faith in Christ alone or faith and works? It's a rhetorical question. 1 Peter 1:4 - to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

Are the saints of God preserved FOREVER, or just temporarily? (Psalm 37:28)
Did Jesus say His sheep will NEVER perish or will perish? Will not be snatched from His hand or will be? (John 10:27-29)
These whom He justified, He also glorified. ALL of them or only some of them? (Romans 8:30)
Believers are sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption or just temporarily? (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).

So where did God say that ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?

mailmandan · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

You will not find the specific words, "once saved always saved" in the Bible, just as you won't find the specific words, "lose or lost salvation" in the Bible either. If preserved FOREVER and NEVER perish and ON ONE can snatch them from My hand and sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption does not convince you then probably nothing else will. BTW the OP is "Not By Works" and not OSAS vs. NOSAS. You can find plenty of threads on that topic if you wish to discuss that further.

gb9 · Nov 21, 2018

Studyman said:

no, you do not.

the Christ of the Bible is - Lord and Savior , fully God and fully man. human and Devine.

you do not believe this. so, no you do not believe in the " Christ of the Bible"'

the Christ you follow was just a really good guy who properly kept the Torah, righted the wrongs of the Pharisees , and showed the proper way to keep the Law.

that is NOT the Savior of the world. the real LORD Jesus Christ is the savior of the world , to all who BELIEVE in HIM.

Studyman · Nov 21, 2018

posthuman said:

And yet it is lawless to create images of God in the likeness of man and call that image Jesus.. It is lawless to create your own High Days from pagan festivals, place the Christ's name on them, and call them holy. It is lawless to reject God's definition of Holy and replace it with the Popes definition of Holy. It is lawless to eat swine's flesh. It is lawless to pollute God's Holy Sabbaths. It is lawless to reject God's Sabbaths and replace them with the Popes Sabbath.

It is not lawless to drink wine, or eat with other humans. It was never lawless to do such things. It is not lawless to walk in fellowship on God's Sabbath and pick an apple to eat along the way. It is not lawless to promote "EVERY" Word of God.

It is not slander or lawless to point these things out, as the Author and Finisher of my Faith pointed the Mainstream preachers of His time out.

EVERY man on the planet who calls Him Lord, Lord, claims the Grace of God and His Mercy for themselves. But not every man who call Him Lord, Lord, will receive this Grace and Mercy. Every self proclaimed Christian honors the Christ with their lips. But as Jesus said, if they practice lawlessness, He doesn't know them.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Repentant man is freed from His sins, not from God's Word.

Matt. 13:
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity (Lawlessness)
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Why don't you believe in this Christ?

Studyman · Nov 21, 2018

gb9 said:

This is the crux isn't it.

You have your Jesus who wasn't a man, but God. A long haired fella who was born on Dec. 25th. Who overcame sin and satan, not by learning obedience, not as a man, but because God created satan and has all power over it. Your Christ didn't risk nothing, He didn't give nothing. He had nothing to lose. His accomplishment was not earned, he was born with powers no other human has. He spent his whole life pretending to be a man, when he was really a god. When the going got tough he just kicked in some god powers no other human has ever had. His feigned human suffering was a show, not real at all. All show. satan can't tempt God, but it tempted your Jesus. Can God be deceived? But it was all a show in your religion.

Then we have the Christ of the Bible. A "MAN" of sorrows, a Prophet like Moses. God humbled Himself in the form of a human in all ways as we are. He came in the Flesh. He learned obedience by the things He suffered, just like us. He had fear, just like us. He was tempted, just like us. He died just like us. He actually risked His life, His immortality to become the first human to overcome sin perfectly. To be the unblemished sacrifice to pay for our sins. The first fruits of many who would also "put on the Whole Armor of God" as He did to overcome sin. To show us man does not LIVE by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God. That is His Glory, that is His Great Victory.

There is most certainly another Jesus being worshipped. A Jesus with no Sabbaths, no clean or unclean. A Jesus which rejects His own Fathers Holy days. His own Fathers creation of sin. A Jesus that requires no repentance. Has no Laws. And can be worshipped any way a person wants. A Jesus that has preserved ancient Pagan festivals by placing his name on them.

My Jesus is the Word of God who came in the Flesh, tempted in all ways as every human. He was a man faithful to God His Father unto the very end. He risked everything for me. I'm not going to despise Him by reducing His Glory to that of a Hollywood actor.

Argueless · Nov 21, 2018

mailmandan said:

Sorry for the OSAS issue. So I'll go to "Not by works" which implies that Faith ALONE saves. I found a verse which says that it is not by faith ALONE...

...You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone James 2:24

I would appreciate it if you can show me a verse that says that it is FAITH ALONE that saves.

Thanks.

preacher4truth · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

You do realize that true faith isn't alone, right? Or, are you being disingenuous?

Argueless · Nov 21, 2018

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

John146 · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

The word is believe. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Over and over the word is believe. Believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Believe upon Him. The believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. The believer is never justified by his own personal faith. Faith must have evidence. Faith requires substance. Where's the evidence of Christ's faith? Look no further than His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

gb9 · Nov 21, 2018

Studyman said:

I just realized something- you believe what others said about Jesus, but you do NOT believe what He said about Himself.

" destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days"

" I lay down my life in order to take it up again. no one can take it from me, I have the authority to lay it down and take it up again '.

" the Son of Man has the authority to forgive sins "

if you were to believe these things to be true, then you would have to admit no mere man can truthfully make these claims.

so, either Jesus was a liar, or He was God in the flesh, fully God, fully man.

when the Word became flesh, it DID NOT cease being the Word.

so, you choose to believe in what others said about Jesus, but you deny HIS words.

I have no idea one gets to such a place of self-deception. I do not want to know.

mailmandan · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

The Bible clearly teaches in over many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

*You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say faith "plus something else?" Faith plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

What believers mean by faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone - “faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation” (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not the same as what James means - “empty profession of faith/dead faith” that remains alone - “barren of works.”

posthuman · Nov 21, 2018

Studyman said:

what are you even slandering about today? who here is worshiping icons?

1 Samuel 21:15
Have I need of mad men, that ye have brought this [fellow] to play the mad man in my presence?

ain't you the one who preaches Jesus was just an ordinary man, not God enfleshed?

posthuman · Nov 21, 2018

gb9 said:

I just realized something- you believe what others said about Jesus, but you do NOT believe what He said about Himself.

" destroy this temple and I will raise it in 3 days"

" I lay down my life in order to take it up again. no one can take it from me, I have the authority to lay it down and take it up again '.

" the Son of Man has the authority to forgive sins "

if you were to believe these things to be true, then you would have to admit no mere man can truthfully make these claims.

so, either Jesus was a liar, or He was God in the flesh, fully God, fully man.

when the Word became flesh, it DID NOT cease being the Word.

so, you choose to believe in what others said about Jesus, but you deny HIS words.

I have no idea one gets to such a place of self-deception. I do not want to know.

He was bowed down to and worshiped as an infant!

Rosemaryx · Nov 21, 2018

Argueless said:

Hi Arguless...This promise from Jesus assures me to Eternal life.
John 6:40
For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Also amongst many many more
John 10:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

We are not only in the palm of Jesus , but also His Father to , our Father who is in Heaven...

John 17:20-23
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

These alone secure me in Christ , I myself would lose my Salvation every day if it was up to me , but thank God is it He who keeps us , praise the LORD and thank You Jesus \

/...xox...

J70x7 · Nov 21, 2018

Rosemaryx said:

Hi Arguless...This promise from Jesus assures me to Eternal life.
John 6:40
For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
Also amongst many many more
John 10:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

We are not only in the palm of Jesus , but also His Father to , our Father who is in Heaven...

John 17:20-23
Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one,Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

These alone secure me in Christ , I myself would lose my Salvation every day if it was up to me , but thank God is it He who keeps us , praise the LORD and thank You Jesus \

/...xox...

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Matthew 18:17
And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will NOT HEAR THE CHURCH, let him be to thee as the HEATHEN AND PUBLICAN.
_____ ______________________________________________

TruthTalk · Nov 21, 2018

posthuman said:

Hi posthuman, I love the clarity that God's word brings to our life and no one needs to error in respect to eternal salvation. We are saved by grace through in Jesus Christ, "Not By Works", this is a truth worth all the gold anyone person can possibly own.

Doctrinal Truth: By Charles Spurgeon
"One chanced, mockingly, beholding the carriage of the men, to say unto them, 'What will ye buy?' But they, looking gravely upon him, said, 'We buy the truth."

The true Christian is like the merchantman who sought goodly pearls: he sought them to buy them; he bought the? with all that he had.

"A buyer must discriminate between the true and something that is similar; these are the genuine articles, but counterfeits are in the market;

Proverbs23:23
"Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding."

Matthew13:44
"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

Studyman · Nov 21, 2018

gb9 said:

The Christ volunteered to serve His Father, to create, after His Commandment, the world and "ALL Things in it, create His Gospel, come to earth as a man, die and after death reap the promises given Him by the Father. He said Himself:

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 10:
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Matt. 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Matt. 16:
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. (As Jesus did for His Father)

The Jesus of the Bible didn't cheat in His Mission G9. He wasn't a fraud, He didn't take shortcuts, He wasn't pretending to be a man.

He had the same tools all mankind has to resist the devil. He had powers that ALL men of true Faith have access to through the Father.

You don't believe this because much of your understanding comes from religious man, as you have been shown. I don't have anything against anyone on this forum. I simply have been freed from the deception of the "Ministers of Righteousness" we are warned about over and over in the Word of God and am sharing this understanding with others.

You also have the power to die through sin. You also have the power to take your life up again through genuine repentance. This power was given you by the Father. Jesus offered His Life for yours to give you this option. I just hate to see folks belittle Him and His great Love by teaching others He really didn't risk anything. You don't believe He really came in the Flesh? Neither did the Pharisees.

Duet. 30:
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I (The Word of God which became flesh) have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

I don't deny any Word of God. I also don't believe you can use one verse to destroy another.

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

How is it God needs a creation of His own to strengthen Him? Or maybe, just maybe the Scriptures are true and Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, was a man.

posthuman · Nov 21, 2018

@dude, it's called 'the hypostatic union'

probably you should study what that means.

Not By Works

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