Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Try the New Strongs Expanded with cross references from Thayer's and brown , driver ,Briggs .

And the Vines Expository .

Strongs : " pisteuo means NOT just to believe . "

Vines : " pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender . Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth ."

The translators are the ones that added a word , by no fault of their own . There just isn't a verb form of the noun Faith on the English language .

If I were wrong , the words believe , believer , and believing , would be corresponding verbs to the noun " Faith ." But they are not! They are corresponding verbs to the noun " belief ."

So if you are right , there should never be the word " Faith " in the NT , it should be the word " Belief " .

Is the light going on yet ?
So a new one, One which had never been available before? The old one is obsolite? Says who??

As fir thayer, I have access to almost every tpe of greek english text you can find I looked it up. And no. Theyer does nto say this.

Your on your own, You have been proven wrong Your faith is in your works. Not in God, that is quite evident.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You won't find a more accurate definition of those two words .

Other than google , what qualifications do you have to correct nyones understanding ?

Justification, also translated as rightious, is a legal term, a person who is “justified” has been truied and found innocent of the crimes which he was charged with.

Sanctification. To be set apart.

Both are actions of God.

Your trying to play God.. Good luck with that..

Me, I will Pistueo (trust or have faith because I have assurance in God and his promises) Because that is the BASIS of my HOPE.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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"a" Yes ,we are saved thru faith and grace and obedience as James 1 tells us, and that faith is the gift of God. You cant say I am saved and then go your own way and disobey your Creator!

"b" The renewing of your mind spoken of in Romans 12 is the Holy Spirit given at babtism and the laying on of hands. It is part of grace and necesary to grow and overcome, you cant do it humanly at all.

"c" There are definitely 3 tenses in savation but it is a process!
a. wrong
b. wrong
c. wrong

Every point you made was full of error...."bolded"
 

ljs

Member
Jan 13, 2018
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Another day almost gone , and I know that Im still saved by " GRACE through FAITH "
nothing else is required , isnt that GREAT News :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Another day almost gone , and I know that Im still saved by " GRACE through FAITH "
nothing else is required , isnt that GREAT News :)
It is always excellent news to rest secure in Christ knowing he saves us to the uttermost and keeps us by his power.....Jesus keeps his promises...and he promises to finish the work of faith he began in us......it must be tragic to have the same type of hope that one haves when they buy a lottery ticket and HOPE they WIN.......we know better than that!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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How so DC, ? straight from Bible! You cant change it because you dont like it, obedience (works) goes hand in hand with faith and grace, cant have one without the other.

BTW. you mentioned personal sanctionification as tho it is seperate from salvation,is that what you believe or am I seeing what you said wrong?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How so DC, ? straight from Bible! You cant change it because you dont like it, obedience (works) goes hand in hand with faith and grace, cant have one without the other.

BTW. you mentioned personal sanctionification as tho it is seperate from salvation,is that what you believe or am I seeing what you said wrong?
The bolded below is not biblical.....and as I have mentioned no less than 50 times on this site...sanctification is dual in usage....sanctified positionally and eternally IN CHRIST at the moment of SALVATION and then daily in our lives by the transformational PROCESS described in Romans 12:1-2......the latter has NO bearing on salvation that is given FREELY as a irrevocable GIFT based upon grace and FAITH....JAMES does not teach a faith/obedience cafe blend salvation.........

suzy37 said:
"a" Yes ,we are saved thru faith and grace and obedience as James 1 tells us, and that faith is the gift of God. You cant say I am saved and then go your own way and disobey your Creator!

"b" The renewing of your mind spoken of in Romans 12 is the Holy Spirit given at babtism and the laying on of hands. It is part of grace and necesary to grow and overcome, you cant do it humanly at all.

"c" There are definitely 3 tenses in savation but it is a process!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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How so DC, ? straight from Bible! You cant change it because you dont like it, obedience (works) goes hand in hand with faith and grace, cant have one without the other.

BTW. you mentioned personal sanctionification as tho it is seperate from salvation,is that what you believe or am I seeing what you said wrong?
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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God said he WILL complete his work.

Will he, or can God fail? It appears you think he can :(
No EG, God does not fail but we sure can. We can reject our calling and our salvation and lose out. God does not want robots, He does not force man to choose Him but that choice is given to him as it was to Adam and Eve and if we deliberately reject it we can definitely lose out. Now if that is repented of that man begins to seek God and repents then he can be forgiven, but there is a sin that is unpardonable! We can be blotted out of the book of life!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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The bolded below is not biblical.....and as I have mentioned no less than 50 times on this site...sanctification is dual in usage....sanctified positionally and eternally IN CHRIST at the moment of SALVATION and then daily in our lives by the transformational PROCESS described in Romans 12:1-2......the latter has NO bearing on salvation that is given FREELY as a irrevocable GIFT based upon grace and FAITH....JAMES does not teach a faith/obedience cafe blend salvation.........

suzy37 said:
"a" Yes ,we are saved thru faith and grace and obedience as James 1 tells us, and that faith is the gift of God. You cant say I am saved and then go your own way and disobey your Creator!

"b" The renewing of your mind spoken of in Romans 12 is the Holy Spirit given at babtism and the laying on of hands. It is part of grace and necesary to grow and overcome, you cant do it humanly at all.

"c" There are definitely 3 tenses in savation but it is a process!
Sorry
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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DC
Sorry but that is not Biblical but a teaching of man Christ did not come to do away with the law. He says this plainly in Matt 5 vrs 17 -20 He told the young man to keep the commandments. He came to magnify the law and make it honorable Magnify means to make larger. A Christian keeps Gods laws in the spirit described as magnificent,expanded to a greater level than just the physical . Isa42vr 21 Bringing our thoughts into captivity to Christ
. Salvation is not eternal IF we reject our calling and trod under foot the Son of God We can lose outRead Hebrews10 vrs 26 -31
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
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28
g
DC
Sorry but that is not Biblical but a teaching of man Christ did not come to do away with the law. He says this plainly in Matt 5 vrs 17 -20 He told the young man to keep the commandments. He came to magnify the law and make it honorable Magnify means to make larger. A Christian keeps Gods laws in the spirit described as magnificent,expanded to a greater level than just the physical . Isa42vr 21 Bringing our thoughts into captivity to Christ
. Salvation is not eternal IF we reject our calling and trod under foot the Son of God We can lose outRead Hebrews10 vrs 26 -31
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No EG, God does not fail but we sure can.
So it is up to us, Not god. Can you see why I keep asking you this? You seem to be contradicting yourself.

We can reject our calling and our salvation and lose out. God does not want robots, He does not force man to choose Him but that choice is given to him as it was to Adam and Eve and if we deliberately reject it we can definitely lose out. Now if that is repented of that man begins to seek God and repents then he can be forgiven, but there is a sin that is unpardonable! We can be blotted out of the book of life!
Who is going to reject someone who has proven to be trustworthy? God has never let us down, So why would we all of a sudden say we lose faith in God. Unless we never really had faith to begin with? Which is what John actually says in his 1st epistle, about how they who reject God were never of us, For if they were of us they never would have left.

I think we need to learn to differentiate people who have true saving faith vs those who have a claimed faith, who may believe, but have never been assured in Christ or his promise.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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DC
Sorry but that is not Biblical but a teaching of man Christ did not come to do away with the law. He says this plainly in Matt 5 vrs 17 -20 He told the young man to keep the commandments. He came to magnify the law and make it honorable Magnify means to make larger. A Christian keeps Gods laws in the spirit described as magnificent,expanded to a greater level than just the physical . Isa42vr 21 Bringing our thoughts into captivity to Christ
. Salvation is not eternal IF we reject our calling and trod under foot the Son of God We can lose outRead Hebrews10 vrs 26 -31
No need to apologize to me for having it wrong.......your gospel is false......and like I said the bolded is false....and i suggest you learn the word Context and what it actually means.......

Suzy37 said:
"a" Yes ,we are saved thru faith and grace and obedience as James 1 tells us, and that faith is the gift of God. You cant say I am saved and then go your own way and disobey your Creator!

"b" The renewing of your mind spoken of in Romans 12 is the Holy Spirit given at babtism and the laying on of hands. It is part of grace and necesary to grow and overcome, you cant do it humanly at all.

"c" There are definitely 3 tenses in savation but it is a process!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,967
4,585
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How so DC, ? straight from Bible! You cant change it because you dont like it, obedience (works) goes hand in hand with faith and grace, cant have one without the other.

BTW. you mentioned personal sanctionification as tho it is seperate from salvation,is that what you believe or am I seeing what you said wrong?

NOW YOU HAVE ARRIVED AT THE TRUTH.
THAT'S THE POINT. Sanctification IS SEPARATE FROM Salvation.

SALVATION is the FREE GIFT from GOD, with absolutely NOTHING FROM US. THAT IS what GRACE IS. We receive that which we CANNOT EARN and DO NOT DESERVE. Our Human Spirit was brought to ETERNAL LIFE by the Holy Spirit, and the human spirit was born DEAD, because of the inherited sin nature from ADAM.

Sanctification, is a Product of LOVE, and it says that HOLY SPIRIT poured GOD's LOVE directly into our GOOD SOIL in our Hearts (human spirit). After we are SAVED BY GRACE ALONE, we will want to Please GOD out of the Harvest of that LOVE that was sown in your Heart (human spirit). Therefore our Obedience spawns out of GOD'S LOVE IN US. And Sanctification is the Process where we in our bodies become more and more like CHRIST. So Sanctification will NOT BE COMPLETE until we get the Glorified Body at the Resurrection, WHILE SALVATION is Complete the MOMENT we genuinely repent, and receive HIM as LORD, which means MASTER.

You see SALVATION is related to our HUMAN SPIRIT.

And SANCTIFICATION is related to our BODIES, becoming more like Christ.

When you try to mix the Two, you CREATE ALL KINDS OF CONTRADICTIONS in Scriptures.


Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us [note the past tense verbiage]not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace [note the past tense verbiage], we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Romans 5:1-10 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith [note the past tense verbiage], we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We have also obtained access through Him by faith into this grace in which we stand [note the past tense verbiage], and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance,
4 endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope.
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit
[note the past tense verbiage] who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood [note the past tense verbiage], we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son [note the past tense verbiage], ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

John 5:24 (HCSB)
24 “I assure you: Anyone who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life [note the past tense verbiage] and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life.


So SALVATION IS SPIRITUAL and happens the moment you genuinely Believe, and SANCTIFICATION is conforming the Body to be LIKE CHRIST's which will take a lifetime until the resurrection.

NOTE these last two verses, may well explain how long ago you were SAVED:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [Antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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Your hatred is as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. As it is written; "there is nothing new under the sun".

It's not my fault that you promote a religion whose traditions transgress God's Commandments any more than it was the Christ's fault that the Mainstream Preachers of His time did the very same thing.

I don't expect you to even consider "Every Word" of God because there has to be a testing ground for those who would deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow Him. As it is written.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Luke 13:
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

You can hate and mock those who "believe in Him" all you like. I would only share with you what the Christ shared with me.

"Come out of her my people, that you share not in her transgressions"

"Depart from Me, I never knew you, you who practice Lawlessness"

"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;" (Lawlessness) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Calling Him Lord, Lord didn't help those examples the Christ gave us in Matt. 7. How you believe you can just pay lip service to Him, and get a different outcome, is truly a testament of why He warned so many times to "take Heed" we are not deceived.

Some on this forum believe in Him. Praise the Word of God who became Flesh for that.
Whoa Studyman ! Hostility like that is usually something hitting a person hard but the truth often does that ! No, I am not showing hate by saying you have to have obedience to Gods law as well as faith and grace. They walk hand in hand and are required by God. He does not cater to mens traditions but condemns them James makes that so clear! Do you believe James is God inspired? If so read what he said, its hard to get by that! Does it not say,By faith wrought witth works faith was made perfect! James2 vr 22




m
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Whoa Studyman ! Hostility like that is usually something hitting a person hard but the truth often does that ! No, I am not showing hate by saying you have to have obedience to Gods law as well as faith and grace. They walk hand in hand and are required by God. He does not cater to mens traditions but condemns them James makes that so clear! Do you believe James is God inspired? If so read what he said, its hard to get by that! Does it not say,By faith wrought witth works faith was made perfect! James2 vr 22

m
Hi Suzy37, just one question for you and welcome to the forum; are we saved by grace plus obedience to God's Law? A simple yes or know is sufficient. Thanks and God bless!
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
GIVE US YOUR UNDERSTANDING WITHOUT QUOTING FROM YOUR STRONG's OR VINE's OF THE WORDS JUSTIFICATION and SANCTIFICATION. WE suspect You are the ONE who has mistranslated the words, and misinterpreted the verses, containing them.

Just so you know, THAT IS ONE TIME.

Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
If you have the capability of understanding the simple truth of how to faithe into Christ , you wouldn't have asked that question . Isn't there anyone here that is qualified to have this discussion without feeling threatened ?
 
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Pisteuo

Guest
Why is EVERY bible translation wrong? EVERY SINGLE ONE.
You dont think they KNEW what the words meant? A bit better than YOU?

The arrogance is unbelievable.
What don't you get about the English language not having a verb form of Faith like the Greek does ?

Do you think that is why the Strongs gives a disclaimer in their Greek dictionary ? " Pisteuo means NOT just to believe .,"