Not By Works

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Mar 14, 2011
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It is vitally important to know the difference between born and begotten. We are begotten when we receive the HS not born. We will be born when resurrected and given a spirit body, then we will have eternal life. We do not now
I disagree, We were born the moment we were adopted into Gods family, when we were regenerated, or made alive,, where we were dead to God, we have been made alive.

The HS enters us because of the above.

A good way to see this is we were saved by God mercy by the washing and regeneratiom of the HS (new birth or being born again)

The bible says I was bornn again (a completd action) By the will of God.

The HS entering is us our pledge and as a guide. This would actually be a term called anointed.


We have a new life in Christ Jesus because we are converted not born again, We have repented, we have the mind of Christ, our outlook has changed. we are going the opposite direction now. We are not born again tho, that is an actual happening at the 1st resurrection.
See, If we are not yet born again, we are still dead, AND None of what you said here is possible. Because we are still seeperated by God. And the things of God are foolish to us.

I am glad you understand there are works to be done, faith is a part of that, knowing there is a God who directs us to do good works , now what do you think these good works consist of ?
I believe I have faith in God. If I have faith in God, then I will not refuse to do anything he says.

One who has faith trusts, and takes steps of faith, The more steps we take, the more we grow. (This is called the act of being sanctified) A baby does not know how to work, they must learn.. ad needs to be fed milk..

Sadly, people want to try to feed baby chritians t-bone steaks, which is delicious but the baby has no capacity to digest this food and would crash and burn if they ate it.

John 3-6 is very informative but again the vital key is when we understand the difference between born and begotten Jh3 tells us when we are born of the spirit we will have a spirit body which we do not now, now we are begotten . When resurrected we will be born again and have life eternal, we only have the promise of that now! We are on the path of salvation but not there yet!
Begotten is an old english term,

One who is begotten is born of the one who begetts them

A term we would use in modern day that resembles that is a mother giving birth, she begetts her child) or more representtive of what happens to us at birth is adoption. Where a new father adopts us into his family.

John 3 says if we are not born again, we will nto see the kingdom. Jesus said the kingdom is right here and right now..

1 peter 1 again says I have been born again it is a completed action.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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...The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
DC is niether of these people.

He would agree with the 1st verse

And he also agrees with the second verse..

So again You are slandering a person, Keep this up and I will report you!! And will ask everyone else to do the same
 

Suzy37

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Nov 20, 2018
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This passage in Hebrews is speaking of people who know God , who have been converted and changed but now have denied Christ willfully for some reason. They had the knowledge of the Truth they had evidently been baptized because there remained no more sacrifice for sin for them, That price had already been applied to them. They had trodden under foot and counted His sacrifice as nothing and had insulted the spirit of grace!
People can commit the unpardonable sin, sear their conscience and have their part in the book of life taken out, This shows they were once written there and blotted out! We are not once saved, always saved. It is very possible to lose out!

I agree whole heartedly we cannot overcome sin on our own, never, and even with God's help we sometimes will still sin, but with His help we can overcome and grow unto the mature man thru His HS in us!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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There are about 3 to 5 very similar........I usually give them a few chances to pay attention....after that.....feet to the fire..!
He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. John 7:18


...“As for the person who hears my words but DOES NOT KEEP THEM, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for THE ONE WHO REJECTS ME AND DOES NOT ACCEPT MY WORDS; that very word which I spoke WILL CONDEMN HIM AT THE LAST DAY. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I KNOW THAT HIS COMMAND LEADS TO ETERNAL LIFE. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50
 
Mar 14, 2011
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This passage in Hebrews is speaking of people who know God , who have been converted and changed but now have denied Christ willfully for some reason. They had the knowledge of the Truth they had evidently been baptized because there remained no more sacrifice for sin for them, That price had already been applied to them. They had trodden under foot and counted His sacrifice as nothing and had insulted the spirit of grace!
People can commit the unpardonable sin, sear their conscience and have their part in the book of life taken out, This shows they were once written there and blotted out! We are not once saved, always saved. It is very possible to lose out!

I agree whole heartedly we cannot overcome sin on our own, never, and even with God's help we sometimes will still sin, but with His help we can overcome and grow unto the mature man thru His HS in us!
I disagree again, It states of people who know God and are part of the church, but nothing says they were born again.

Imagine having the truth in your hand, and when push comes to shove, You go back to the lie you already had faith in to begin with. It will be far worse for you. Because unlike many who never were enlightened, You had it and said no.

If we read the restof the passage, this is made clear.


7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.


Notice it bore no fruit, and like pauls version, when he said our works will be tried by fire, has nothing but ashes to show for it. Yet in both cases, it says they were nor cursed (condemned) but near to being cursed, or saved but only through fire..


The message is clear, If they fall away (if it were possible, like the law states it is) then they could not be renewed (hgoing back to law is useless because if you fell yu can never be renewed. Unless christ came to die again, putting him to shame)
 

Suzy37

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Nov 20, 2018
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Your talking to the wrong people

No one here emphasises or believes that a child of God will not be changed, and live out their new life. Our beef is th ebelief this personal change and act of working has anything to do with maintaining our salvation.

We believe as the scripture days, He who BEGAN a good work WILL COMPLETE it until THE DAY OF CHRIST.

The work God started in us, he will complete on ressurection day.. It does not say might, it says will. Our hope is in this GOSPEL TRUTH. Not in our ability to change or do good works.
Hope I am not butting in here, but this new life is made up of maintaining good works thru the HS, we try as hard as we can to obey God, but it is to His glory we have good works. If we do not maintain good works then we are breaking His laws in some way, maybe not helping someone in need when we can or breaking a commandment of lust, or coveting ! Good works are like James tells us plainly, like Abraham did when he was ready to sacrifice his son. Spiritual and physical acts.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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NIV1984 Jude 1:1-19
Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ: Mercy, peace and love be yours in abundance. The Sin and Doom of Godless Men Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them. Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion. These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—twice dead. They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
 

Suzy37

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Nov 20, 2018
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If I was out of line in butting in on your post please let me know and I will try and not do that again . Hard to restrain myself sometimes tho LOL!
 

Suzy37

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Nov 20, 2018
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I was not responding to a post from you Suzy37, I was responding to TT with whom I have a history. I agree with you and I believe if you sonsider the context of my posts you will see that.

If I have said something you believe is scripturally incorrect, please help a brother out and show me.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head. God has provided His Grace but not everyone who claims it, receives it. This can not be denied. So in His Word, which is written for our admonition, who receives His Grace? That is the question I have been wanting to discuss on this forum since I got here.

I am filled with joy that you also understand the importance of this question and you also see the need to humble our self to God and His Word, and not the religions of the land.

I agree with James, in fact I believe every scripture is contained in every scripture. That His Word flows like a river of living water.

I don't think you are showing hate by showing God's truth about obedience, Faith and Grace and how they fit together like a glove.

You are preaching to the Choir here sister.
 
Mar 14, 2011
72,374
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Hope I am not butting in here, but this new life is made up of maintaining good works thru the HS, we try as hard as we can to obey God, but it is to His glory we have good works. If we do not maintain good works then we are breaking His laws in some way, maybe not helping someone in need when we can or breaking a commandment of lust, or coveting ! Good works are like James tells us plainly, like Abraham did when he was ready to sacrifice his son. Spiritual and physical acts.
Good works produces fruit, it is called serving others.. it is done because we follow the two laws. Love God, And love our neighbor

No one can do this perfect. A baby in christ must learn to love, and a mature person will ny nature live out that love.

Most of us are in between.

If works are required to maintain salvation, No one will be saved, Because no one can love (work) the way God Demands.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
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For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.Hebrews 4:12-13
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
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Sorry I am pretty new here and thought you were talking to me. I am sure I have not read nearly all your posts yet
Thanks for the good words and sorry again!
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
42
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Good works produces fruit, it is called serving others.. it is done because we follow the two laws. Love God, And love our neighbor

No one can do this perfect. A baby in christ must learn to love, and a mature person will ny nature live out that love.

Most of us are in between.

If works are required to maintain salvation, No one will be saved, Because no one can love (work) the way God Demands.
 

Suzy37

Active member
Nov 20, 2018
208
42
28
The two laws- more than just two. Love God toward contain the first four commandments and love to neighbor the last six. They define our love toward God and man.

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous
.


Of course good works are required, else we would be practicing sinners . God created us unto good works and it is thru Him we are able to do so. Having the mind of Christ, the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by His HS, not our works but God's !

All ten of those commandments we are to love and keep !