Not By Works

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Nonsensical at times too. For example the Scripture reference for the first one does not add up to what they say in it.
1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2)
Exod 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Nothing in it in regards to believing in YHWH as the only true source of power in the universe.

Neither does the second add up to the Scriptural reference.

2. Submit to Yahweh as the Supreme Head, to be in unity with Yahweh. (Deu_6:4)
Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Even if we consider verse 5 it still does not hold up.
Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

However if we Love GOD we will submit.
To put it simply I reject your version of rejecting what was accomplished by Maimonides and no one has found any more verses for centuries. We are talking about scripture not man made concepts!! I guess you reject systematic theology books as well. They go issue by issue discussing it with ALL the verses relating to that issue.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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I understand what you are saying. I also know there is not one person ever on the planet who called the Christ Lord, Lord, that didn't truly believe they we saved. But I also know that Jesus Himself said not every one who claims to be saved, are saved.

Those who the Christ spoke of in Matt. 7 carried their belief to the grave. But even though they believed they were saved, they were not. It's too late to finally believe the warnings after we die.

I just think since we are to believe in Him for salvation, should be believe all His Word's, even His Word's of warning, and not just take some religious man's word regarding the salvation of our selves and our family.

As He said. "Man shall "live by" EVERY WORD of God".

These are His Word's as well.
If you look at that passage the people were using their works as proof of following Jesus. A true Christian would use grace through faith in Jesus instead. Christians know works doesn't save.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speakand slow to become angry, 20 for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. James 1:19-21

Taming the Tongue
...Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check. When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.


Two Kinds of Wisdom
...Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness. James 3:1-18


...Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Luke 6:22

...If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 1 John 4:20
Decon was absolutely right on target.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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James deals with the mere belief that there is a God contrasted against true saving faith, He addresses the Jewish tribes scattered and to this day they believe in God bit have no saving faith....James does not teach salvation by works, nor does he teach a man is justified before God by works.....and there is no contradiction...

Paul, Romans, before God a man is justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law

James, the above saving faith that justifies before God without the deeds/works of the law can be seen by men based upon works

How many works does it take?

He that BELIEVES on the Son has already done the work of the Heavenly Father.
The issue is true faith produces works. Thus as James says I will show you my faith with my works. There is a tight bond between true faith and the resulting works. Works without faith has Jesus saying, "Begone I never knew you!"
 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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There is the concept in the Bible that since God can see into our heart our best works are as filthy rags to the purity of God. That is why he gave us grace. With grace through faith in Jesus God sees us as cleansed from sin.
I know there are differing concepts out there regarding religious doctrines. You and I just encountered one regarding Passover and Unleavened bread. You found a website many trust and posted their "Concept" of Passover being a 7 day feast. Lot's of folks believe this because of this and other websites, along with some Jewish traditions, etc.. But if we just study the Word of God apart from the influence of all these other voices, we find a different Biblical reality. That Passover, according to the Christ who created it, is actually a one day Feast followed by Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is the 7 day Feast with Sabbaths on both end.

This same scenario is repeated hundreds of times a day in this world. Other voices convincing folks of things which are not true about God's Word. This started with Eve and we are warned about this over and over.

So regarding the understanding of true faith, there are also different "concepts" out there that paint a different picture of the Bible's definition.

For instance it is widely taught that if I deny my self as the Christ commands, and follow HIS definition of "Good works" and deny what I or religious man believes is Holy, and submit myself to God's definition of "Good" and His definition Holy, I am somehow doing my own Works. And doing so is a rejection of Grace.

But the Biblical Reality is that if I submit myself to the Christ (Word which became Flesh) and follow His Word, I am no longer guiding my own footsteps, rather, the Christ is guiding my own footsteps. Therefore it is no longer me, but the Christ within me.

So then I have denied "my works", which are filthy rags, and embrace the Works of God that the Scriptures teach "He created beforehand that I should walk in them".

Throughout the Bible God directs us to "Follow Him", to keep "His Commandments" over the religious instruction (other voices) of the religions of the land, which is how He teaches we are to Love Him. Those who "do" these sayings, are loved by Him and receive His Mercy, like Abraham.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He said the same thing as the Word of God which created the Commandments in the first place.

"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Those who choose the "other voices" and reject the instructions of God like Eve and the Pharisees He said:

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.


This is why Jesus said by their "works" ye shall know them. This is why I have "come out" of the religions of the land who call Him Lord, Lord, but do not what He says.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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It is a man made list. Commentary at best.
Go take a long walk on a short pier. You refuse to look at anything produced by man. I guess we should burn all religions books except the Bible. Then I bet any Bible except the extremely flawed KJV!
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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I know there are differing concepts out there regarding religious doctrines. You and I just encountered one regarding Passover and Unleavened bread. You found a website many trust and posted their "Concept" of Passover being a 7 day feast. Lot's of folks believe this because of this and other websites, along with some Jewish traditions, etc.. But if we just study the Word of God apart from the influence of all these other voices, we find a different Biblical reality. That Passover, according to the Christ who created it, is actually a one day Feast followed by Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is the 7 day Feast with Sabbaths on both end.

This same scenario is repeated hundreds of times a day in this world. Other voices convincing folks of things which are not true about God's Word. This started with Eve and we are warned about this over and over.

So regarding the understanding of true faith, there are also different "concepts" out there that paint a different picture of the Bible's definition.

For instance it is widely taught that if I deny my self as the Christ commands, and follow HIS definition of "Good works" and deny what I or religious man believes is Holy, and submit myself to God's definition of "Good" and His definition Holy, I am somehow doing my own Works. And doing so is a rejection of Grace.

But the Biblical Reality is that if I submit myself to the Christ (Word which became Flesh) and follow His Word, I am no longer guiding my own footsteps, rather, the Christ is guiding my own footsteps. Therefore it is no longer me, but the Christ within me.

So then I have denied "my works", which are filthy rags, and embrace the Works of God that the Scriptures teach "He created beforehand that I should walk in them".

Throughout the Bible God directs us to "Follow Him", to keep "His Commandments" over the religious instruction (other voices) of the religions of the land, which is how He teaches we are to Love Him. Those who "do" these sayings, are loved by Him and receive His Mercy, like Abraham.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He said the same thing as the Word of God which created the Commandments in the first place.

"And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Those who choose the "other voices" and reject the instructions of God like Eve and the Pharisees He said:

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.


This is why Jesus said by their "works" ye shall know them. This is why I have "come out" of the religions of the land who call Him Lord, Lord, but do not what He says.
Regarding Passover the Bible clearly states it begins and ends with an annual Sabbath. That was part of what that reference said about Passover among other things. Rejecting something man made is erroneous. You need to refute it with scripture. Go back to the drawing board and refute it with scripture instead of the fallacious rejection you love to use!!
 

lightbearer

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Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
You refuse to look at anything produced by man. I guess we should burn all religions books except the Bible. Then I bet any Bible except the extremely flawed KJV!
All translations are flawed to one degree. It is up to us to dig deep enough to find the issues. In respect to commentaries (religious books); As was said earlier
Not all is by the the Spirit. Some is just by man. We are to discern the Spirit through the Spirit.

Sadly it all can be rather subjective. I pray for our our LORD's objectivity!
Got to go....
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."
"that one verse doesn't erase the rest of the Bible, dude" ____;)



The Lord is good to all,
and His mercy is over all that He has made!
(Psalm 145:9)
Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’
For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.
(Matthew 9:13)
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
(Matthew 23:23)
For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy.
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
(James 2:13)
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
(Matthew 5:7)
Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.
(Luke 6:36)
He saved us,
not because of works done by us in righteousness,
but according to His own mercy
(Titus 3:5)
With the merciful you show yourself merciful
(2 Samuel 22:26)
For He says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
(Romans 9:15)
Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart.
(2 Corinthians 4:1)
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
(Romans 12:1)
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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All translations are flawed to one degree. It is up to us to dig deep enough to find the issues. In respect to commentaries (religious books); As was said earlier
Got to go....
The problem is you just reject out of hand anything written by man. I use my smartphone as my Bible. I go to biblegateway.com and insert book and chapter. After that I can switch to all of the different translations. Couldn't understand the German one though. I use mostly NIV, ESV, KJV, and AMPC. Comparing them any error is in translation comes through. Then looking at documents written by man it is easy to discern errors when when annotated with scripture references. Otherwise I can use the systematic theology book to get scripture references for a specific issue. Have that on my smartphone as well.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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So then I have denied "my works", which are filthy rags, and embrace the Works of God that the Scriptures teach "He created beforehand that I should walk in them".
So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
(
Romans 9:16)

So then I have denied "my works", which are filthy rags,
amen, and let us quote it accurately, dude:

all our righteous acts are like filthy rags
(Isaiah 64:6)
not just your wicked deeds are filthy rags. that bit is obvious. the verse doesn't even mention them.
your righteous works are unclean & wretched, too. therefore whence cometh salvation? who will save me from this body of death?
praise God who has redeemed us through Jesus Christ the Son!
 

Rosemaryx

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May 3, 2017
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💙.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋⛪️.•*¨.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋💙
SUNDAY ⛪️ BLESSINGS
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
- ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:13‬ ‭
💙.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋⛪️.•*¨.•*¨❋.•*¨.•*¨❋💙
 

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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You better damned follow God's commandments and not care, in the least, what a religious tradition has to say about anything. If it isn't Biblical, it ain't real, friend.

So what does HE SAY ABOUT CURSING ? ? ?
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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For instance it is widely taught that if I deny my self as the Christ commands, and follow HIS definition of "Good works" and deny what I or religious man believes is Holy, and submit myself to God's definition of "Good" and His definition Holy, I am somehow doing my own Works. And doing so is a rejection of Grace
that's a mischaracterization.

Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.
(Romans 10:3)

God's definition of righteousness isn't a righteousness that you establish by doing works.

. . . as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ — the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
(Philippians 3:6-9)

it is not by righteous works that i may do that He calls me righteous, not by obedience to His law, even if i were blameless under it.
it is by faith in a righteousness that is not of ourselves.

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
(Isaiah 32:17)

it is His righteousness, in Whom we have put our trust, not in our own which is comprised of obedience in actions.
and the result is peace and assurance forever.
but there is no rest for the wicked, just as there is no rest for anyone who - indeed setting aside the grace of God - believes they must establish righteousness of their own through constant will and exertion and effort. all our righteous works? filthy rags. Jesus tells us the attitude we ought to have about them:


So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say,
'We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'
(Luke 17:10)

the accusation that believing these things and holding to them as true means we don't do any good works? strawdude.
because of His mercy to the ungodly, we ought to strive to do what pleases Him. not in order to attain mercy, but because He has freely given it. thanksgiving offerings are not for atonement but in reply to the removal of sin :)



 

Studyman

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Oct 11, 2017
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If you look at that passage the people were using their works as proof of following Jesus. A true Christian would use grace through faith in Jesus instead. Christians know works doesn't save.
Actually, lets look at the passage.

Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I know how popular it is to preach we have no say in our own salvation. But Jesus is specifically saying here that those "WHO DO SOMETHING" are those who will enter the Kingdom of heaven. I assume you equate this with Salvation, Yes? So to say a "Christian" knows our works have no bearing on Salvation is a direct departure from the very Word's of the Christ in this passage. How do you reconcile this?

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Is it not important to understand what the Christ is saying here? What is "that day"? Is it not the Last Great Day? When all who have not been resurrected in the First resurrection are judged? Had they been accepted, they would have been included in the First Resurrection, YES?

So these folks who all their life called Jesus Lord, Lord, gave Him all the credit for all their works, helped others in His Name had died, and their eyes were opened in "That Day". What would they see? A Lake of Fire, Yes? So when they saw where they were, when they realized their fate, they defended their religion. I would expect everyone will "in that day".

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. "Lawlessness"

So the reason Jesus gave for rejecting them was directly tied to their WORKS. Specifically disobedient works.

How can you say Works don't matter in our salvation when Jesus plainly says why He rejected them. It wasn't because of the things they did in His Name, it was because they didn't trust the Father enough to obey Him. Choosing instead to promote religious works or traditions which "transgressed the commandments of God". Isn't this the same reason Jesus rejected the Mainstream Preachers of His time?

Just saying.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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Regarding Passover the Bible clearly states it begins and ends with an annual Sabbath. That was part of what that reference said about Passover among other things. Rejecting something man made is erroneous. You need to refute it with scripture. Go back to the drawing board and refute it with scripture instead of the fallacious rejection you love to use!!
This is the Drawing board.

Lev. 23:
4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

Not the 15th day as you and your website preach. At least according to the Christ who created them.

6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

So the Bible does not clearly state Passover begins and ends with a Sabbath. Here is the Word of God regarding the matter. Passover is a one day Feast, while FUB is a 7 day feast, with a Sabbath on the First day, and on the Last.

It's right here in your own Bible. How can you say differently?
 
J

J70x7

Guest
If you look at that passage the people were using their works as proof of following Jesus. A true Christian would use grace through faith in Jesus instead. Christians know works doesn't save.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Actually, lets look at the passage.
Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Just saying.
If you look at that passage the people were using their works as proof of following Jesus. A true Christian would use grace through faith in Jesus instead. Christians know works doesn't save.
Actually Endoscopy is correct, "Christians know works doesn't save."

God bless you Endoscopy.
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."