Not By Works

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Dec 6, 2018
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Colossians 1:26-29 (KJV)
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

To God be the Glory.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Then salvation isn't a gift at all, but something to be earned through our own efforts.
Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?

The FREE GIFT of God is His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
(Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)

“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God
.” John 3:16-21

...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

Then John said;

...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did
. 1 john 2:3-6

WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)

...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17


...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8


...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.

Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God.

...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29

...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8

Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.

...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

...This is IRREVOCABLE.

But what did he say to the Gentiles?

...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24

...But our citizenship is in heaven. And WE EAGERLY AWAIT A SAVIOR from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 3:20

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED . Romans 13:11
 
Dec 28, 2016
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He wasn't here too long ago, right? I had him on ingnore like most of the guys on here who argue out of context Scripture to support a works gospel.

I want to know if any of these who believed they were saving themselves by their works ever got truly converted via these debates because they saw they were lost.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
He wasn't here too long ago, right? I had him on ingnore like most of the guys on here who argue out of context Scripture to support a works gospel.

I want to know if any of these who believed they were saving themselves by their works ever got truly converted via these debates because they saw they were lost.
Do not know about them, but I have had 5 or so message me behind the scenes saying that this thread has opened their eyes to the truth and the fallacy of a faith/works blend dogma!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "...........................................
You know your long posts are done to ad nauseam? You know this, right? No one here wants to read a long diatribe of strung together, out of context texts of Scripture. (I know, I know, blast me here with I don't want to read the word of God). :rolleyes:

Rarely do I stop to read them and instead pass them over. Yours, MattforJesus and some are on ignore.

Do you also know that in doing this all you are showing is you misunderstand vast amounts of Scripture?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Do not know about them, but I have had 5 or so message me behind the scenes saying that this thread has opened their eyes to the truth and the fallacy of a faith/works blend dogma!
Studyman and his ilk aren't going to ever get it until God does a work in their heart. His outright hatred for the Bride of Christ is duly noted. Seems to love himself quite a bit and seems to like God a little less in my honest opinion. His statements are smug, very high opinion of himself, low view of God, and moans on here day and night accomplishing nada.

Anyhow, wonder how all that will all pan out for him?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?

The FREE GIFT of God is His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
(Romans 6:23, revelations 22:17)

“For God so loved the world that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have ETERNAL LIFE. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” John 3:16-21

...Now THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE: THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

Then John said;

...WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a LIAR, and THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know WE ARE IN HIM: Whoever CLAIMS to live in him MUST WALK as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6

WE CAN BE IN JESUS IF WE OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. HE IS THE LIFE THAT WE MUST ENTER IN. (john 14:6)... ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS. (Romans 6:23)

...If you want TO ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” matthew 19:17


...Although he was a son, HE LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED hebrews 5:8


...To this you were called, because Christ SUFFERED for you, LEAVING YOU AN EXAMPLE, that YOU SHOULD FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. 1 Peter 2:21

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE IN HIM, but also TO SUFFER FOR HIM, Philippians 1:29

Those who truly believes in the Son of God loves the light and Jesus is the LIGHT of the world.

Whoever loves Jesus stays in the light and OBEYS His commands. Whoever does not OBEY His commands hates the LIGHT. Whoever hates the LIGHT, hates God. Whoever hates God are ENEMIES of God.

...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29

...THEY STUMBLE BECAUSE THEY DISOBEY THE MESSAGE—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Peter 2:8

Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.

...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5

...This is IRREVOCABLE.

But what did he say to the Gentiles?

...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24

...But our citizenship is in heaven. And WE EAGERLY AWAIT A SAVIOR from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Philippians 3:20

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP from your slumber, because OUR SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED . Romans 13:11
No one earned anything and that is the idiocy of your view and continued incessant posting that conflates justification with sanctification...

Abraham was justified by FAITH and David describes this faith in Romans 4 and PAUL who was inspired and taught by direct revelation said clearly that a man is justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW.....

You do not teach the truth, you conflate justification with sanctification into a false gospel, you in error believe and peddle that these prophets and men if God EARNED salvation whichbis a gift and cannot be earned, yea....you are not biblical and for sure you do not lay the truth bare.....!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
Studyman and his ilk aren't going to ever get it until God does a work in their heart. His outright hatred for the Bride of Christ is duly noted. Seems to love himself quite a bit and seems to like God a little less in my honest opinion. His statements are smug, very high opinion of himself, low view of God, and moans on here day and night accomplishing nada.

Anyhow, wonder how all that will all pan out for him?
The same way it will pan out for ALL who place their trust in that which does not save a man.......there is but one correct message of salvation and thr MANY that come before Jesus claiming him as Lord and a right to enter based upon what they have done is the same thing that most teach, believe and embrace tragically.......this is a very hard truth that many cannot embrace or accept!

Faith plus ANYTHING TO GAIN, KEEP OR FINISH SALVATION = FALSE GOSPEL WITH NO POWER!!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
I just realized....I have been using CC for 5 years today as it is the 12th in Australia hahahah. Almost every day I have posted in the BDF hhahahha wooohoooooo
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43
No one earned anything and that is the idiocy of your view and continued incessant posting that conflates justification with sanctification...

Abraham was justified by FAITH and David describes this faith in Romans 4 and PAUL who was inspired and taught by direct revelation said clearly that a man is justified by FAITH without the deeds/works of the LAW.....

You do not teach the truth, you conflate justification with sanctification into a false gospel, you in error believe and peddle that these prophets and men if God EARNED salvation whichbis a gift and cannot be earned, yea....you are not biblical and for sure you do not lay the truth bare.....!!
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
113
The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24


...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15


...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7


...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19


Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?
No leg to stand on pal......and like I said...your Catholic twist dogma saves no one....!!
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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No leg to stand on pal......and like I said...your Catholic twist dogma saves no one....!!
Nice try rebel soldier. Ever heard of Lucifers pride and rebellion and the Son of perdition? Doesn't sound like he's obedient to authorities. Now if you're a good soldier, YOU will obey your commanding officer. Take as an example the people of God who won so many battles and were saved from destruction whenever they OBEY God as their commander. Did you trust and OBEY your commanding officer in the Marines?

Why won't you obey the Lord Jesus when He says that "if you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)

...“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46
 
Dec 28, 2016
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So, if the Son of Perdition would simply do a few good works he'd earn his way into heaven. He didn't miss true conversion, he just hasn't done any good works.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! :LOL::ROFL:(y)
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina

Argueless
Active member

Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?




Those holy men had FAITH and belief in God. They did not earn salvation. They were instruments through which God did His own work. They were saved because of their FAITH
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
161
43

Argueless
Active member

Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?




Those holy men had FAITH and belief in God. They did not earn salvation. They were instruments through which God did His own work. They were saved because of their FAITH
Yes they did not earn their salvation and nobody could. My reply was to Budman which implies that I am saying that salvation could be earned, so I asked if these HOLY men will be thrown into the lake of fire for obeying and teaching about obedience to God. Will they be?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
46,144
20,066
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Argueless
Active member

Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?




Those holy men had FAITH and belief in God. They did not earn salvation. They were instruments through which God did His own work. They were saved because of their FAITH
Amen....Argumore (A.K.A. Seoche reborn) will never grasp that simple truth.....too busy breaking rules and working his way to the "Many" grouping that Jesus speaks of....Lord Lord did we not........blah blah blah
 

J70x7

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Jun 13, 2018
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Argueless
Active member

Will the holy men of God such as the prophets and the apostles who were killed and some were even beheaded, be thrown into the lake of fire because they "earned their salvation" (as implied) by OBEYING AND TEACHING OBEDIENCE TO GOD?




Those holy men had FAITH and belief in God. They did not earn salvation. They were instruments through which God did His own work. They were saved because of their FAITH
Titus 1:9
Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Titus 1:9
Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.