Not By Works

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dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,438
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Hi Budman, the Prophet Jonah is one of God's very own who tried to, "walk away later", Quote: "Running away from God is like running into darkness; always run to God never away from Him." (Author unknown).

These are familiar bible verses to most but are ignored by those who believe in grace plus works/merit. When you hear the true gospel preached, "saved by grace through faith, in the Son of God and that not of yourself" it is like, "finding an oasis in the desert", an irresistible calling.

Quote: "God elects not by works but by His decree", Pastor John Piper

Romans5:20
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

1John1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1Corinthians
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
The good shepherd will leave the 99 to find the one that wanders......

Jesus will FINISH AND COMPLETE THE WORK of faith he began in us....and if we abide not he will ABIDE FAITHFUL TO HIS PROMISE TO FINISH AND COMPLETE what he started because HE IS FAITHFUL!
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,438
15,292
113
People do not understand Salvation is not based on our reputation or goodness, But on Gods..

Either god can keep his word. Or he has failed.. those are the only two options.
I will always cast my lot in with Christ remaining true to his promises...He saves me to the uttermost by the irrevocable gift of life and keeps my by his power through the faith he began in me....the same faith he will finish and complete.....and if per chance I walk away...he will leave the 99 and come get me...even if he must use physical death in the process!!!
 

J70x7

Active member
Jun 13, 2018
402
63
28
The good shepherd will leave the 99 to find the one that wanders......

Jesus will FINISH AND COMPLETE THE WORK of faith he began in us....and if we abide not he will ABIDE FAITHFUL TO HIS PROMISE TO FINISH AND COMPLETE what he started because HE IS FAITHFUL!
Matthew 10:22
And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

Hebrews 12:7
Persevere under discipline. God dealeth with you as with his sons; for what son is there, whom the father doth not correct?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,438
15,292
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By the way you all....good morning from Australia....sunny today, gonna be about 95....9:12 am Monday Morning.....Time travel is possible haahaha
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
9,044
2,918
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I found a version of AMAZING GRAZE in Cherokee with the WORDS in Cherokee. It looks like Cherokee would be simple to learn.

 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
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So people do have free will to be broken by God and recieve his gift? And others have free will to be broken by God and go down screaming and still reject him?

Because other than this, How can you say God did nto chose anyone for hell? (Just asking)
Mankind fell in Adam. Grace, and only grace, was what drove God’s election. Justice left those He chose not to extend grace to in their sins.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
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So by not offering grace to the non elect. He is fact chose them to hell. I though you said he did not?
He left them in their ALREADY condemned state my friend. Grace must be free or it is not grace. If God has to offer grace to everyone, it not longer becomes grace, but an obligation.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
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Why? Jesus said why, was jesus wrong?
Sigh...


18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.(John 3)

If people reject Jesus, they were already condemned. By using your approach, those who died never hearing the gospel are in heaven because they never rejected Jesus.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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He left them in their ALREADY condemned state my friend. Grace must be free or it is not grace. If God has to offer grace to everyone, it not longer becomes grace, but an obligation.
No, That would make Jesus a God of truth, (Love) and satan a father of lies.(God is not a god of love, but does whatever he wants no matter who he hurts)

Just because anyone offers grace to another person does not mean they are obligated to follow through. I can offer grace to people. They are free to reject my gift, At which case I am not obligated to do anything.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
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No, That would make Jesus a God of truth, (Love) and satan a father of lies.(God is not a god of love, but does whatever he wants no matter who he hurts)

Just because anyone offers grace to another person does not mean they are obligated to follow through. I can offer grace to people. They are free to reject my gift, At which case I am not obligated to do anything.
I am done with you my friend. I have no ill will towards you, but debating with you, I am just like a dog chasing my tail. It is fruitless to further engage you in the this matter.

Good day my friend.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Sigh...


18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.(John 3)

If people reject Jesus, they were already condemned. By using your approach, those who died never hearing the gospel are in heaven because they never rejected Jesus.
Sigh..... I feel ya man, All you had to do was post the passage.

Thank you,

The difference is belief vs unbelief

And your wrong, Romans 1 said everyone knows. And the HS is tasked with making sure EVERYONE hears..


If God does not give a person an opportunity to believe, then God can not hold that person accountable. For not believing, He could judge him for his sin, But not unbelief.
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,258
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I am done with you my friend. I have no ill will towards you, but debating with you, I am just like a dog chasing my tail. It is fruitless to further engage you in the this matter.

Good day my friend.
I could say the same for you my friend.

You could show some humility and not act this way. And just say we will have t agree to disagree. But no, You had to throw your jab. Sadly, I have sadly come to not expect that from certain people

And all this does is strengthen me, so thank you/
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
397
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They were not trying to say the same thing

James addresses Jews with a mere belief in God contrasted against saving faith and hiw a MAN can see the faith of another man

Paul addresses being justified before God by faith and that WORKS play no part in saving a man or justifiying a man before GOD

Neither one was peddling a faith plus works blend for salvation or justification before God!

And that is what MOST cannot grasp!

Two different audiences and two different applications of the word


One before GOD one before MEN!
That is the impression but my source on it is Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg who is an expert on Biblical languages and history. He analyzed the two different scriptures and found that both were struggling to bring into the Greek language the same concept. He examined similar texts in Hebrew and tried to put them in Greek. They don't fit very well. He found each person was trying to make the same Hebrew concept fit into Greek. Each chose a different bethod to accomplish it. Thus the apparent difference.
 

Argueless

Active member
Oct 21, 2018
658
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Yes, they were saved. The Bible says all who were there were believers. As I've said many times, God does chastise His children, even to the point of taking them home, but they can never be lost.

At the moment of conversion, one is saved forever. Even if they walk away later. They couldn't go to hell if they tried. If salvation is truly a gift, and grace actually unmerited, this has to be so.
It seems like even lieing to the Holy Spirit is allowed in your OSAS group.

Here's what the bible says;

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

You have just exposed the true colors of OSAS believers and I see those who agreed with you.

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.Ephesians 5:6

...And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. Romans 13:11
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,438
15,292
113
That is the impression but my source on it is Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg who is an expert on Biblical languages and history. He analyzed the two different scriptures and found that both were struggling to bring into the Greek language the same concept. He examined similar texts in Hebrew and tried to put them in Greek. They don't fit very well. He found each person was trying to make the same Hebrew concept fit into Greek. Each chose a different bethod to accomplish it. Thus the apparent difference.
My source is the Holy Spirit and the word of God....one of these days you will quit relying on commentaries and creeds and actually open your eyes to the truth of scripture....My assesment is correct....!