Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

Why are the ANGELS in Tartarus right now? What was their offense that God put them there?
Do not know my friend. All we know is they fell from their first estate, which was in heaven. Rev. 12 speaks of this, but does not go into details as to what exactly transpired.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I don't have TV.. don't even have cable. I haven't watched TV since 2011..

NOT EVEN ON YOUTUBE?

What is your Internet Speed?

I just switched to to the Fastest fiber optics line, because it was cheaper than the lower speed Spectrum.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
You said he was perfect. Jesus is perfect.
I said he was perfect in the sense that his genes weren't corrupted. Not that he wasn't a sinner.

Genesis 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I said he was perfect in the sense that his genes weren't corrupted. Not that he wasn't a sinner.

Genesis 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Or could it not mean Noah (who walked with God) was justified not by his actions. But by grace, because like Abraham, Noah believed God and it was accounted to hm for righteousness? Just a differing thought..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
Do not know my friend. All we know is they fell from their first estate, which was in heaven. Rev. 12 speaks of this, but does not go into details as to what exactly transpired.
But Jude does in fact give us the reason. They went after "strange flesh". What was this flesh if not human. Also, the sons of God term in Genesis 6 is used again only in Job. And in ALL instances there it is crystal clear, that it is referring to Angels.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
Or could it not mean Noah (who walked with God) was justified not by his actions. But by grace, because like Abraham, Noah believed God and it was accounted to hm for righteousness? Just a differing thought..
Well I would say the perfect (uncorrupted) genes, is a separate issue from his walk with God.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
Yeah I think the animals were corrupted as well. Even after the flood.


ALLLLLLL flesh had become corrupted, save Noah, who was perfect in his generations or read that GENES.

As in the days of Noah.... How could anybody deny the mixing of species isn't happening TODAY, right before our eyes. I could pull up volumes of stories. Human DNA introduced to all sorts of animals. Just last week it was reported that a Chinese researcher edited a human baby.

The Bible will not entirely make sense unless it viewed as war against the serpent's seed. And how he tried to corrupt or kill the Messiah's line, and God's reaction to his devices.

Tough red pill for many to swallow. I understand that. I'm cool with getting strange looks and comments for holding such a view.

5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.(Genesis 6)

Noah was no different(neither were the other 7 who were saved with him) than those who were in verse 5.
Why do I make such a claim? Noah found favor in God’s sight. We know God does not look at man’s goodness when He gives them His favor/graces them. So, Noah was different than them, yet God gave him grace(along with the seven others) and justly condemned the rest.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
But Jude does in fact give us the reason. They went after "strange flesh". What was this flesh if not human. Also, the sons of God term in Genesis 6 is used again only in Job. And in ALL instances there it is crystal clear, that it is referring to Angels.
I agree,, I believe this did happen. I remember being taught this in church when I was young. But I am not sure I still believe this is why the flood occured. I do not believe any angel could mate wiht a human, unless they had the power to give themselves a human body with human DNA (again reffered to as “kind” or specie) the ffspring (if any) would still be born dead, and still need to be born again. They would still be human (although they may have charcteristics other humans do not have, that woudl all be subjective, and could not be proven
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.(Genesis 6)

Noah was no different(neither were the other 7 who were saved with him) than those who were in verse 5.
Why do I make such a claim? Noah found favor in God’s sight. We know God does not look at man’s goodness when He gives them His favor/graces them. So, Noah was different than them, yet God gave him grace(along with the seven others) and justly condemned the rest.
Again, Why did he condemn the rest, And why did he tell Israel to kill all the inhabitants.

I believe the answers are the same
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well I would say the perfect (uncorrupted) genes, is a separate issue from his walk with God.
Again, I think this would be a stretch, The bible does not mention his genes.

In the NT we are told to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect. Same word. I believe same context.


Noah was not any less a sinner than anyone else. But something seperated him from everyone else. What was that thing that made him “perfect” and the others not perfect?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
This is tough stuff brother. This is one of those areas I really struggled with. Mostly because we have this societal vision of what Angels are.

But those Angels had sex with human women and produced a hybrid race. Jude relates the sin of the Sodomites going after "strange flesh" men having sex with men, with the Angels going after the strange flesh of human beings.

You don't like. Tell me why they are in Tartarus.
You're reading Scripture via a presupposed assumption.

It's not tough stuff it's hogwash. Obviously you picked up on this from someone else or others. Who is it or who are they?
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
I said he was perfect in the sense that his genes weren't corrupted. Not that he wasn't a sinner.

Genesis 6:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Yet nothing in the text supports that. What about his siblings?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
well one thing is proven today. And that is why I have certain people on ignore

He demanded someone answer his question, Which they did

They asked hm a question. He refused to answer. Then claimed he did not have to

He continually belittles the other person who he diagrees with. With mocking belittling remarks.
=-
Yet he claims to be a child of God

Sadly, He does not act like one. He acts more like the phairsee who would never answer Christ or the things which they were asked to answer, but instead mocked, belittled and attacked the character of anyone who disagreed with them

Sad people can not change.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
What happened to Noah's brothers and sisters? Their DNA was clean too, right? Clean DNA earns favor in God's eyes, right? I didn't see them get on the ark. All others didn't believe the preaching of Noahbecause of their DNA? Why preach 120 years to bad DNA drones? The elect have good DNA, the non elect bad DNA. Serpent seed doctrine &c &c &c to infinitum is the absurdity.

No thanks, I'll stick with sound doctrine, not myths and fables, 2 Timothy 4:1-4.


1 Peter 3:18-20 (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: [that is Born Again, the Baptism that SAVES]
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Christian Water Baptism is only a Picture and Public Identification, of what the Holy Spirit did by IMMERSING you into the Spiritual Body of Christ, TRUE SALVATION.