Not By Works

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PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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OK, maturity is good. So can you tell me, if Paul preached a message that in effect states: you are not righteous/justified by not committing sin, how could he also warn believers that living a sinfull lifestyle would bar them from the kingdom of Heaven?
Fair question. But I think the understanding that this was for true born again believers is erroneous.

Paul was exhorting them, as he does several other places in Scripture, that they needed to examine THEMSELVES to see if they were in fact born again. Those that were living that lifestyle may have mistakenly thought they WERE saved. It's the exact same today.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Created IN Christ Jesus ( Believers ) Unbelievers all around the world do amazingly good works , yet without Christ they are dead ...xox...
YES!

I would argue the hardcore buddhist monks live the most moral lives on planet earth, YET are still lost like a donkey on a boat! (due to idolatry, lack of faith in Jesus)

LIVING MORAL LIVES WONT SAVE NOBODY!
And before anyone takes what I say and TWISTS it: im NOT SAYING we shouldnt live moral lives, OF COURSE we need to live moral lives, nobody would disagree with that!

PS: I dont remember what your signature meant, could you please tell it to me again?
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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Fair question. But I think the understanding that this was for true born again believers is erroneous.

Paul was exhorting them, as he does several other places in Scripture, that they needed to examine THEMSELVES to see if they were in fact born again. Those that were living that lifestyle may have mistakenly thought they WERE saved. It's the exact same today.
Well it was in his letter to the Galatian church. They had certainly started out as Christians, so if they were not when he wrote to them they lost their salvation
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Well it was in his letter to the Galatian church. They had certainly started out as Christians, so if they were not when he wrote to them they lost their salvation

Who says ALL in ANY particular Church are true Christians? That's a huge assumption on your part.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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Fair question. But I think the understanding that this was for true born again believers is erroneous.

Paul was exhorting them, as he does several other places in Scripture, that they needed to examine THEMSELVES to see if they were in fact born again. Those that were living that lifestyle may have mistakenly thought they WERE saved. It's the exact same today.
Or take the following, this must concern saved people for they shared in the Holy Spirit, so, if they had righteousness apart from not committing sin, what could go wrong?
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Heb6:4-6
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Well it was in his letter to the Galatian church. They had certainly started out as Christians, so if they were not when he wrote to them they lost their salvation
BTW. Paul was also asking the Galatians who had bewitched them into thinking the Law and works could save. What does that tell ya?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That's funny.
For me, and many others, it's the exact OPPOSITE. Maturity is realizing that that our works as it relates to Salvation, are reckoned as filthy (used menstrual cloths) rags.
And also realising just how filthy a sinner we really were and are.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
BTW. Paul was also asking the Galatians who had bewitched them into thinking the Law and works could save. What does that tell ya?
amen...
thanks for fighting for the truth brother

am at work and can't type much

God bless you
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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BTW. Paul was also asking the Galatians who had bewitched them into thinking the Law and works could save. What does that tell ya?
I quoted Heb6:4-6 if you prefer, that has to relate to Christians, as only believers can share in the Holy Spirit.
When have I said law and works saves? Please provide a post where I stated that?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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YES!

I would argue the hardcore buddhist monks live the most moral lives on planet earth, YET are still lost like a donkey on a boat! (due to idolatry, lack of faith in Jesus)

LIVING MORAL LIVES WONT SAVE NOBODY!
And before anyone takes what I say and TWISTS it: im NOT SAYING we shouldnt live moral lives, OF COURSE we need to live moral lives, nobody would disagree with that!

PS: I dont remember what your signature meant, could you please tell it to me again?
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God's children...\:)/
 
Nov 21, 2017
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So people can have faith, but not have faith, is that what your asking?

When you trust people, do you disobey them 24/7, or do you do what they say BECAUSE you have faith in them
Where in the world did you come up with that "so people can have faith, but not have faith" lol, I know that I have a hard time expressing what I am trying to say sometimes, but if I am that bad about it then I need to not be part of the conversations.

You need to be more specific of what I said for me to understand what you mean by this.

When Jesus come in His glory and sits on His glorious throne, all nations will be gathered, and Jesus will separated them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

He will put the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left.

To those on his right he says to them "Come you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty, when I was naked you clothed me and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

And they ask him when did we do these things. And Jesus tells them that if you did these to the least of the people, you did it to me.

And then he says to the ones on the left "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels because you did not feed the hungry, clothe those who were naked, give drink to the thirsty, you didn't visit the widows and the prisoners.

Are you saying that feeding the hungry, or giving clothes to those in need, visiting the widows, orphans, prisoners is not works because we might boast about doing them, so therefore not to do them?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Fair question. But I think the understanding that this was for true born again believers is erroneous.

Paul was exhorting them, as he does several other places in Scripture, that they needed to examine THEMSELVES to see if they were in fact born again. Those that were living that lifestyle may have mistakenly thought they WERE saved. It's the exact same today.
Amen james did the very same thing, when he asked people to test their faith in james 2.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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I quoted Heb6:4-6 if you prefer, that has to relate to Christians, as only believers can share in the Holy Spirit.
When have I said law and works saves? Please provide a post where I stated that?
Concede that not all the Galatians were saved, born again Christians, and that the laundry list of sins Paul was talking about was aimed at them and not the saved and we can move on to Hebrews.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Who says ALL in ANY particular Church are true Christians? That's a huge assumption on your part.
Amen, paul was talking to people who had yet to make a true decision and were going back and forth between grace and law. And attacking the flase teachers in the church who were trying to lead them astray
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
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Concede that not all the Galatians were saved, born again Christians, and that the laundry list of sins Paul was talking about was aimed at them and not the saved and we can move on to Hebrews.
You are ignoring Heb6:4-6 those mentioned shared in the Holy Spirit, you can only do that if you are saved.

None of you can answer the question can you

If you are justified/righteous apart from not commiting sin, how can what is written in heb6:4-6 happen?
Happy to change to that scripture for there is no doubt there as to people being saved or not is there
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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You are ignoring Heb6:4-6 those mentioned shared in the Holy Spirit, you can only do that if you are saved.

None of you can answer the question can you

If you are justified/righteous apart from not commiting sin, how can what is written in heb6:4-6 happen?
Happy to change to that scripture for there is no doubt there as to people being saved or not is there
They had heard the good news preached to them , and there was hope for those who would listen to enter into the new covenant , but some failed to enter because of their disobedience , them ones did not believe that Jesus was the LAST sacrifice...xox...
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
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They had heard the good news preached to them , and there was hope for those who would listen to enter into the new covenant , but some failed to enter because of their disobedience , them ones did not believe that Jesus was the LAST sacrifice...xox...
They must have entered the new covenant if they partook of the Holy Spirit.
 
Nov 21, 2017
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Just for the record, no one here is denying sanctification and christian growth, and how since god loved us, we should learn to emulate him, and in doing so, do the works we created us to do,

People will use the strawman we are immature, or hate obedience, or love our sin (many other accusations which are not true)

Our soul beef is against the thought that obedience is what saves us, making eternal life not a fift of God paid by the blood of christ, but a reward or wage earned by our hard work.