Not By Works

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stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Salvation cannot be undone once a person has believed.

Suffering for or like Jesus does not save.

The saved person has entered through the straight gate.

If we could live as Jesus lived why did He come to earth?
To give us the Holy Spirit, so we could obey the new commandment: to Love as He loves.
But your second comment shows you did not understand what I said. No One Works to be saved. No One did this, No One is also One of God's names, "No One like Him. About your fist comment. Wy not go all the Way, salvation cant be undone even by an unbeliever:
"If we believe not He remains faithful."
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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What do the propogandists want most of all?
That you agree with them, and only them, and do not listen to another view, or else you will burn, I tell you,
burn. You can tell when they get going, labels come flying, how terrible this group is, and do not listen
to any word they say, they are "evil". And which evil do they hate most of all, listening and letting God
speak to your heart.

But my friends, brothers and sisters in Christ, I know you listen to Jesus so do not fret, for He keeps and
guides us, shows us the way and anoints us with His blessing.

And the thing I love most of all, listening to people, hearing their hearts, seeing their walk, knowing
their style, you will know what they are full of and what to expect. People cannot lie about their hearts.
A good tree has figs and dates as its fruit, a bad tree thorns and thistles, or a good tree encourages, blesses
and uplifts us in Christ, and bad try try to knock down, destroy and hurt.

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Matt 7:16-18

So if someone comes with accusations and agression to simple discussions what are they?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Thanks for your generosity, I have a hardback copy but always looking to upgrade to leather for my collection. I certainly wouldn't start fires with It. LOL. I'D say it's worth $20.....leather $80-$100......I used to work for a Bible bookstore that had a large used book section. I bought libraries from retired preachers For the store.......I sure miss them days
I went in a "Christian" book store that was going out of business in Little Rock once....had 90% off.....a buddy and I bought about 3000 grand worth of books for $300.....I got several good books to study words with......both Hebrew and Greek to English theological dictionaries.....I also went into a old store in Athens, Illinois once and they had thousands of books....Got a German Bible from late 1700's for about $5.....gave it to a fired that collects old bibles
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I don't believe that satan himself enters anyone Bill. I did take a course on demonology. Something I didn't know until the course is that satan and the fallen angels are in the 2nd heaven. Demons are body less spirits from the first age.

They cannot enter the spirit of believers, but can torment the soulish part of us. Like the spirit of depression.
You can't medicate a demon.
Can I ask why you would reject the following?? AND how can SATAN as a ROARING lion WALK about seeking whom he may DEVOUR if HE IS NOT on the earth....

New American Standard Bible
And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

King James Bible
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

eiserchomai: to go in (to), enter
Original Word: εἰσέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eiserchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ice-er'-khom-ahee)
Definition: to go in (to), enter
Usage: I go in, come in, enter.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Can the seed un-germinate?

depart: G868​

ἀφίστημι

aphistēmi

af-is'-tay-mee


From G575 and G2476; to remove, that is, (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.: - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdraw self.

Traitors in the camp. They left for they were not of us. My paraphrase of course.

Total KJV occurrences: 15
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Can I ask why you would reject the following?? AND how can SATAN as a ROARING lion WALK about seeking whom he may DEVOUR if HE IS NOT on the earth....

New American Standard Bible
And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.

King James Bible
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

eiserchomai: to go in (to), enter
Original Word: εἰσέρχομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: eiserchomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ice-er'-khom-ahee)
Definition: to go in (to), enter
Usage: I go in, come in, enter.
We call everything of the fall satan don't we? We don't differentiate unless a prophet is calling out individual spirits that God is speaking. And you probably aren't going to like that statement. Can't help it. :)

However, I do believe that the head honcho...satan himself confronted Jesus, and entered Judas.

Someone told me once that I wasn't important enough for satan himself to be bothered with. Demons or spirits yes, but not him.

Thank God!

Plus....he resides in the 2nd heaven but of course he can come to the earth.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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We call everything of the fall satan don't we? We don't differentiate unless a prophet is calling out individual spirits that God is speaking. And you probably aren't going to like that statement. Can't help it. :)

However, I do believe that the head honcho...satan himself confronted Jesus, and entered Judas.

Someone told me once that I wasn't important enough for satan himself to be bothered with. Demons or spirits yes, but not him.

Thank God!

Plus....he resides in the 2nd heaven but of course he can come to the earth.
Explain the 1st two bolded statements in detail and just because he carries the title the Prince of the Power of the Air....what verses would you cite to say he dwells in the 2nd heaven (assuming you mean outer space) seeing how the birds DWELL in the 1st heaven (AIR) and the celestial bodies dwell in the 2nd HEAVEN (planets, moons, stars, sun etc.)
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Explain the 1st two bolded statements in detail and just because he carries the title the Prince of the Power of the Air....what verses would you cite to say he dwells in the 2nd heaven (assuming you mean outer space) seeing how the birds DWELL in the 1st heaven (AIR) and the celestial bodies dwell in the 2nd HEAVEN (planets, moons, stars, sun etc.)

Eph_3:10  To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Eph_6:12places.

Col_1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col_2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I was told that when the fallen angels plus satan were cast out of Heaven, they took up the place of the 2nd heaven. There's a reason for Eph 3:10.

And remember Dcon....I was a student, not the teacher.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Forgot your question....Some deliverance ministries, at least the ones I know of, will teach the victorious Son of God, then take the class through deliverance. They call out specific spirits. If they manifest, and they do, then deliverance takes place.

You would be surprised Dcon, to know how many believers do not know that satan and Jesus are not in a battle. That just the name of Jesus and faith in that name is enough to make him run.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I don't believe that satan himself enters anyone Bill. I did take a course on demonology. Something I didn't know until the course is that satan and the fallen angels are in the 2nd heaven. Demons are body less spirits from the first age.

They cannot enter the spirit of believers, but can torment the soulish part of us. Like the spirit of depression.
You can't medicate a demon.
Satan and other fallen angels definitely enter into people, I was into witchcraft I know.:(
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Eph_3:10  To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Eph_6:12places.

Col_1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col_2:15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I was told that when the fallen angels plus satan were cast out of Heaven, they took up the place of the 2nd heaven. There's a reason for Eph 3:10.

And remember Dcon....I was a student, not the teacher.
I do not believe he is talking about Satan in Ephesians 3:10.....as a matter of fact the King James translation of that verse is very misleading......and even if the King James translation is used.....the question begs to be answered....WHY or HOW could God possibly USE the CHURCH to TEACH SATAN about the many sided (manifold) aspects of God's Wisdom.....?? AND SORRY....JESUS contradicts whoever taught you.........

New American Standard Bible
So that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly placesmight be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God.

AND.....EVEN the words of JESUS proves that SATAN is on the earth ruling.....--->He wrote to the Church of Pergamos and said......

I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Seat
thronos: a throne
Original Word: θρόνος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thronos
Phonetic Spelling: (thron'-os)
Definition: a throne
Usage: a (king's) throne, seat; meton: power, dominion; a potentate.

dwelleth

katoikeó: to inhabit, to settle
Original Word: κατοικέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: katoikeó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-oy-keh'-o)
Definition: to inhabit, to settle
Usage: I dwell in, settle in, am established in (permanently), inhabit.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Did you go through deliverance then UG?

They lie a lot too. :)


Unclean spirits, evil spirits etc. Is what Jesus called them.
Yes, Jesus delivered me.

Believe me it is a very, very real and terrifying experience.

Jesus cleans house before He takes abode
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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Pray for us in SE Michigan. We're gonna get hit with a very, very bad windstorm. :(
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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They cannot enter the spirit of believers, but can torment the soulish part of us. Like the spirit of depression.
You can't medicate a demon.
how to know if i got this? been depressed my entire life, literally. rarely get excited about things. not on meds and dont plan on going on em im doing better nowadays
 
Oct 31, 2015
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I don't want to cause any fear in any of us here so I'll also give the way of protection from torment.

The Word of God. The first line of defense is praise.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18


  • he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.




JPT
 
May 20, 2018
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I read some of your posts. I wouldn't call you a babe. :)

Scripture speaks of the called, chosen, and faithful. Then whosoevers....

I see this but I don't have a set opinion yet. And it's why I asked.

But, wasn't His prayer that we would be one with Him as He is with Father? That's not for anyone but His body.
I should for certain, but i don't have a Bible handy right now, but i believe his prayer intensely included the disciples in the immediate hearing area, but at the end he includes "all that believe through their word... which would be you and I also, but that knly extends hjs prayer request to the father to a broader people with no mention of the world he blatantly didn't include, i dunno if im hitting the mark your after.
Sorry about the babe comment, it was for a suttle approach. I see so much negativity at times (and i certainly play my role at times) i was being cautious.
 
Oct 31, 2015
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To give us the Holy Spirit, so we could obey the new commandment: to Love as He loves.

Yes agreed.


The grace of God is the Holy Spirit given to us to obey His commandments, which boil down to loving God and loving our neighbor.



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3




JPT
 

safswan

Active member
Jan 19, 2019
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Not being under the law is not being under its condemnation
Not exactly.The following study explains it in more detail:

NOT UNDER LAW

When confronted with certain of the commands,which should be observed by Christians but which are largely ignored by the majority,those who ignore these commands will boldly say; they are not under the law but under grace.


"For sin shall not have dominion over you:for ye are not under the law,but under grace."[Romans 6:14]

To understand what is meant by "not under the law" we must know what it is to be under grace.

Grace - (5485,Strong' s)charis, from 5463;graciousness( as gratifying), of manner or act(abstr.or concr.;lit., fig.or spiritual;espec. the divine influence upon the heart,and its reflection in the life;including gratitude):

With regards to God's act towards sinners it is thus defined as:The kindness by which God bestows favours and blessings upon the ill deserving,and grants to sinners pardon of their offenses,otherwise called unmeruted favour.(Bible dictionary - The Family Bible)


To be under grace is therefore not speaking of the Christian using something other than the law of God to define sin or right living but of the way sin is dealt with ie. how God treats sinners.


To be under law in this context would be a reference, therefore ,also to the way in which sin is dealt with by the law.The passage alludes to this as it says;

"For sin shall not have dominion over you:.."

This passage speaks of a change in the way sin and its consequences are to be treated,all because of the actions of Christ.[See, Romans 6:9-11]

How was sin and sinners treated before Christ, the Messiah came to save His people?How did sin have dominion over man?

In the old covenant sin had dominion over man in two ways.

(i)Sinners had a curse pronounced against them for failing to keep the commands of the law.Also any sinner discovered was likely to be punished for his sin and death by various means was one of the punishments. [Deuteronomy 27:26;Exodus 21:12-24;Leviticus 24:10-23;Deuteronomy 19:11-21;17: 2-13;Hebrews 10:28.]

(ii)There were onerous ceremonies which were to be performed in order to approach God in worship and to atone for the sins of the people.[See, Leviticus 1-7,16,23]


"And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you to make atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year.And he did as the Lord commanded Moses"[Leviticus 16:34]


However these sacrifices and ceremonies for sin were only temporary measures put in place until Christ should have made the sacrifice which would remove sin and its consequent result of eternal separation from God.All these(temporary measures) were called patterns,figures and shadows.[Exodus 25:9,40;Hebrews 8:5;9:22-28; 10:1-10]


To continue to administer the punishments, to refuse to acknowledge the true and perfect sacrifice of Jesus and to continue to trust in the sacrifices and ceremonies is to be under the law.


It is God's grace in making the sacrifice of Jesus available to all,but God's grace does not replace the commands which were broken and which caused the sacrifices and ceremonies to be introduced,Hence Paul asks:


"What then? shall we sin,because we are not under the law,but under grace?God forbid."[Romans 6:15]


The writer of Hebrews says we have been redeemed from transgressions described by the first covenant:

"And for this cause He is the mediator of the new testament,that by means of death,for the redemption of transgressions that were under the first testament,they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance" [Hebrews 9:15]


Paul was also able to say he was:

"...being not without law to God but under the law to Christ..." [I Corinthians 9:21]

He also says the law is that which identifies sin.[See,Romans 3:20b;7:7]

This clearly shows Paul was still subject to parts of the law and prophets but that the Lord Jesus Christ had replaced portions which related to His death.Hence Christians are not under the law but are still subject to the commands in the law and prophets which define sin,right and wrong.

The ten commandments are referred to in this way where Christian life is concerned.[See, Romans:13: 8-10;I Corinthians 7:19;Hebrews 8:10;James 2:10-12]


The best example of what is involved in being under grace is seen in the case of the woman caught in adultery.

The woman was found guilty of breaking the command:

"Thou shalt not commit adultery."[Exodus 20:14]

According to the law she was to have been stoned to death.[Leviticus 20:10;John 8:5]

Grace was exercised and Jesus said; "...Neither do I condemn thee.."[John 8:11]

Jesus did not prescribe any remedy for atonement according to the law.[eg.Leviticus 16:1-34]

However at the end of it all, she was told :

"...go and sin no more. "[John 8:11]


Hence; " Thou shalt not commit adultery", still stands and she is still subject to the law of God even thou grace freed her from the penalty of sin.


It is the same now, as we access this grace by faith but are to practice the "good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."[Ephesians 2:8-10]


Many persons teach the opposite of this,as they claim those who observe the ten commandments and other aspects of the law which define right living (righteousness) are under a curse,fallen from grace and are trying to earn their own salvation.


Jesus and the apostles knew there would be persons who would attempt to distort the gospel in this way and their words on this subject are clear.

Jesus knew there would be many who would claim to believe and have faith in Him.He states clearly that this must be accompanied by their obedience:


"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him,if ye continue in my word,then are ye my disciples indeed."[John 8:31]


Paul said it this way:

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing,nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love."[Galatians 5:6]


James makes it clear that our faith is dead unless accompanied by our works:


"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified,and not by faith only....For as the body without the spirit is dead,so faith without works is dead also."[James 2:24,26]


John states clearly it is not wrong for us as Christians to do works of righteousness:


"Little children let no man deceive you:he that doeth righteousness is righteous,even as He is righteous."[ I John 3:7]


In conclusion;we must have faith in the sacrifice of Christ in order for us to gain forgiveness and remission of our sins.Any one who continues to trust in the shadows (sacrifices and ceremonies) is still under the law and is condemned to die for; "all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God;" so all have to depend on Christ for salvation.[Romans 3:23,28]

The law is not made completely void however as it still identifies sin and right living and hence Paul asks:

"Do we then make void the law through faith?"

And answers:

"God forbid we establish the law."[Romans 3:31]

The law which is established includes the ten commandments. [Romans 13:8-14;7:7; 2:10-13,21- 23;I Timothy 1:9-11]
 
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So, a friend of mines child (25 yrs old) is preparing for eternity with Satan because he has been paralysed from the neck down since he was 5. It was his cause that led to the accident so he blames his own damnation on his stupidity. He is in his own hell because he can't physically manifest gokd works meet for repentance.