Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
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Where is this in the N.T.?

Does this refer to Mathew 25?
When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats as a shepherd would?

Well, how does that work?
The sheep are sheep and the goats are goats.

The sheep go on Jesus' right and the goats on His left.

The sheep are those that go to be with God because they obeyed what Jesus commanded...
The goats are those that will go to eternal punishment because they did NOT obey what Jesus commanded.

I still don't get it....

The sheep obey God and go to Eternal Life.
The goats do not obey God and go to eternal punishment.

So?
* believe.

believe does NOT NOT NOT mean obey. stop this lie.

you have been told this and had this proven to you many times.

you are a wicked false teacher, spreading lies after you have been time and again shown how this is NOT true.

we obey because we are saved , not to maintain.

I never told you that you are going to hell.

I will tell you that you are either a wicked false teacher or too prideful to accept truth when it contradicts what you believe.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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the sheep -goat thing is based on the accepted being sheep, the rejected being goats.

sheep- accepted. goats rejected.


so, that is why we correctly say that sheep do not turn into goats , back to sheep, back to goats ....

that is what is meant,

so, that is why we correctly say that sheep do not turn into goats , back to sheep, back to
So a goat can become a sheep.... But a sheep cannot become a goat. LOL
 
Feb 24, 2019
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So we hear the Gospel, GOD quickens us to believe with the faith He gives us. We confess with our mouth Jesus is Lord, believe in our heart that God raised Him to life, and we ARE a saved born again, Child of God.
I agree with this 100%
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
113
So a goat can become a sheep.... But a sheep cannot become a goat. LOL
keep laughing .

I hope some of enjoy playing games and making light of God's word.

this is not a game to me. I am not here to laugh and carry on about God's word, making light of it.
some of you need some serious repentance and attitude adjustment.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
we were dead in sin
then QUICKENED (made alive)
no longer dead

born again

not by our own power
but Gods

by grace through faith

and what will justify us in judgement is the righteousness of Christ (again by GRACE through FAITH)


1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

Philippians 3
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:



it sounds to me like you believe your walk will justify you🤔
Washing of regeneration

Not by our good deeds, but by gods mercy, i am dumbfounded at the amount of people who think they no longer need gods mercy because they have “made it”

I think they need pauls thorn in the flesh, because they do not understand their situation.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
* believe.

believe does NOT NOT NOT mean obey. stop this lie.

you have been told this and had this proven to you many times.

you are a wicked false teacher, spreading lies after you have been time and again shown how this is NOT true.

we obey because we are saved , not to maintain.

I never told you that you are going to hell.

I will tell you that you are either a wicked false teacher or too prideful to accept truth when it contradicts what you believe.
Something is not a lie just because some do not like to agree with it.

What do you think Hebrews 5:9 means?
8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,


Jesus is the Son of God and even HE had to learn to be obedient.
Jesus became the source of Eternal Salvation TO THOSE WHO OBEY HIM.

Obedience is absolutely necessary for salvation.


John 3:36
36
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

If you pay attention, you'll find that the words BELIEVE and OBEY are synonymous and can even be exchanged for one another.

I've posted many links on this. I DID NOT invent this...I've often said that I don't care for the Greek.
If you don't agree with experts,,,,that is no fault of mine.

Here's more: I'm sorry if you don't agree with the translators who know much more than we do...


Introduction

When the English translations of the Greek New Tes- tament were made in the 1526-1611 period, the “difficult Greek in which the New Testament is written…still held mys- teries for” English scholars. (Nicolson: 224.) One of those mysteries was the Greek word pisteuo in John 3:16. In over 200 instances of pisteuo in the New Testament, not once did the King James Bible render it as obey. (See Strong’s Concor- dance.) However, scholars now realize obey was a common meaning of pisteuo in ancient Greek. Obey certainly was the meaning of pisteuo in John 3:36 (see page 448). Yet, this obe- dience salvation formula is identically repeated in John 3:16.

Besides John 3:36 helping, one can more easily accept pisteou means obeys in John 3:16 when one looks at Apostle John’s many quotes of Jesus about obedience. Jesus in John 8:51 says “whoever keeps on obeying (tereo) My Teaching

should never ever die.”1 In John 15:1-10, Jesus says a “branch in me” that does not “bear fruit” is “taken away,”

“cut off from the vine,” thrown “outside and burned.” 2 John likewise quoted Jesus saying in total accord:

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good [things], unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil [things], unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV).

For the rest of this fine article click the link at the top…

Suffice to say that the Paulinists love to quote John 3:16 in order support the faith only doctrine of Paul using Jn 3:16 as their proof text that Yahshua taught the same as Paul, which is ludicrous at best.

‘…that whosever obeys Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.’

In this rendering of John 3:16 it is more than apparent that the salvation that Yahshua taught is completely predicated upon obedience to His teachings. Something that Paul says in 2 Cor 5:16 is also now null and void.

2 Cor 5:16 is easily swallowed by those born of Paul seeing as how Paul claims to be their father thru his spurious and apostate gospel.

However for those who are actually born from above via the Word of Truth that is sown in them this defining of the original Greek word ‘Pisteuo’ meaning ‘to obey’ as opposed to the passive ‘believe’ or faith only’ is simply verification of what they already knew instinctively.

 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
keep laughing .

I hope some of enjoy playing games and making light of God's word.

this is not a game to me. I am not here to laugh and carry on about God's word, making light of it.
some of you need some serious repentance and attitude adjustment.
gb...this goat thing is kind of funny.

I'd like to see some scripture on this....

Are you going to reply re Mathew 25?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
113
gb...this goat thing is kind of funny.

I'd like to see some scripture on this....

Are you going to reply re Mathew 25?
is Matthew 25 the whole Bible? is that all the word of God that we have? why is that above all other Scripture?

or could it be that Matthew 25 props up your false teaching , or you can easily twist it.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
* believe.

believe does NOT NOT NOT mean obey. stop this lie.

you have been told this and had this proven to you many times.

you are a wicked false teacher, spreading lies after you have been time and again shown how this is NOT true.

we obey because we are saved , not to maintain.

I never told you that you are going to hell.

I will tell you that you are either a wicked false teacher or too prideful to accept truth when it contradicts what you believe.

Very good Post! The only thing that I could add, is OBEDIENCE that does not have the MOTIVE of AGAPE LOVE is unacceptable to GOD.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
keep laughing .

I hope some of enjoy playing games and making light of God's word.

this is not a game to me. I am not here to laugh and carry on about God's word, making light of it.
some of you need some serious repentance and attitude adjustment.
Hi gb9, Please could you show me where goats become sheep.

As far as I know, goats stay goats. On this analogy, goats are doomed to judgement.
It is also said there are good trees and bad trees. Not bad trees that become good trees.

In real life though Paul, who was a blasphemer became a redeemed saint.
Sheep are sheep, but some sheep are Jesus's sheep. I think the idea that all sheep are Jesus's sheep
has taken over peoples thinking, so when they hear sheep, they think saved, kept eternally.

It is funny if we end up arguing which analogy is Gods meaning, when it is not clear.
 
Feb 24, 2019
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keep laughing .

I hope some of enjoy playing games and making light of God's word.

this is not a game to me. I am not here to laugh and carry on about God's word, making light of it.
some of you need some serious repentance and attitude adjustment
I am not making light of God's word. I was responding to what you said.

I am very serious about the word of God and my relationship with him.

I don't think it is God's will, just because we are saved, to walk around and look like we just ate a lemon and chased it with prune juice
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
is Matthew 25 the whole Bible? is that all the word of God that we have? why is that above all other Scripture?

or could it be that Matthew 25 props up your false teaching , or you can easily twist it.
Huh?
What do you mean?
Mathew 25 is part of the bible...
It's where I read about sheep and goats.

Do you think I explained it incorrectly?
How?

It takes time to go back and look for posts....
Why don't you just answer the post instead of telling me I twisted the biblical words?

Here's my post again....it's no. 89,617...
Please show me HOW I twisted scripture.
Thanks.


Where is this in the N.T.?

Does this refer to Mathew 25?
When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats as a shepherd would?


Well, how does that work?
The sheep are sheep and the goats are goats.


The sheep go on Jesus' right and the goats on His left.

The sheep are those that go to be with God because they obeyed what Jesus commanded...
The goats are those that will go to eternal punishment because they did NOT obey what Jesus commanded.


I still don't get it....

The sheep obey God and go to Eternal Life.
The goats do not obey God and go to eternal punishment.


So?
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
2,225
517
113
Very good Post! The only thing that I could add, is OBEDIENCE that does not have the MOTIVE of AGAPE LOVE is unacceptable to GOD.
Does the N.T. state this? Or you?

Could you post some scripture please.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
113
Hi gb9, Please could you show me where goats become sheep.

As far as I know, goats stay goats. On this analogy, goats are doomed to judgement.
It is also said there are good trees and bad trees. Not bad trees that become good trees.

In real life though Paul, who was a blasphemer became a redeemed saint.
Sheep are sheep, but some sheep are Jesus's sheep. I think the idea that all sheep are Jesus's sheep
has taken over peoples thinking, so when they hear sheep, they think saved, kept eternally.

It is funny if we end up arguing which analogy is Gods meaning, when it is not clear.
don't " hi gb9 " me. you know who I am, we are interacted many times over the last couple of years. ( well, when you were not banned)

you are peterjens, we all know it. stop pretending .

and, I agree. goats stay goats. sheep stay sheep. the lost sheep was still a sheep.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
You believe your obedience will keep you saved?
You don't believe we obey BY the Holy spirit?
🤔
A friendly question,
What do you mean by keep you saved?

My friends if I do not keep up contact could start to believe I do not care for them.
How long is it if we stop caring or loving God when we have become lost, and caught in sin?

And if a believer cannot become caught in sin and needed to be restored why did Paul say this

Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
Gal 6:1

My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sin
James 5:19-20

These verses imply to me, that we can damage our walk with the Lord, possibly terminally.
Why would anyone believe such a warning should not be taken seriously?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Here is were you and I disagree....the parable is about a "son" becoming a backslid sinner
Yes, a backslid son, i never denied that, so we see from the start, you already do not understand all i am saying.

Twice in this lesson Jesus said "my son was dead and lost'". You have added emotionally and financially........the lesson wasn't about finances or emotions, it was about a lost son.
I just used examples, another example would be a soldier who wandered away from his unit, who is alone and lost, cut off from his supplies, having to fend for himself, basically dead.

I asked what thyou difference between a dead son and a dead non son was. You never answered, again, your stuck on the word dead.

As I pointed out the word "dead" is the same word used in other verses dealing with us being dead in our sins.
So what you have is what they call circumstancial evidence, which can not be proven, but your using it to support your belief,

I think it can be dangerous to make the text say something it didn't say

I'm aware of the argument that you make that no matter what he was still a SON.......But I think this is the reason for the lesson Jesus is giving.....that even though I am a son, if I rebel, turn my back on God, I can become DEAD.....LOST
I think it is dangerous to say god is a less loving father than a human father, i think it is dangerous to put a dead son and a non dead son in the same category. And i think it is fangerous to say you can lose, what you could never earn to begin with, based on your actions.

The son did not have any involvement in his birth, he never earned that right to be his dads son, he canr unearn something he bever earned, thats why i asked, and will keep askimg why you focus on the word death, and not son,
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
don't " hi gb9 " me. you know who I am, we are interacted many times over the last couple of years. ( well, when you were not banned)

you are peterjens, we all know it. stop pretending .

and, I agree. goats stay goats. sheep stay sheep. the lost sheep was still a sheep.
Hi gb9,

How do I know you. The best I know you is only here on christian chat posting comments.
You seem to believe there is something more significant than that going on?
Is there? Do I know you in real life? And you never told me? Oh gosh.... you are not .... :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Life by the Spirit
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I WARN YOU, as I did before, that THOSE WHO LIVE LIKE THIS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Who is Paul WARNING in these verses? Is it a WARNING only for the unbelievers or both?

But since according to you and others on this thread, ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED. Does this mean that WARNINGS are not for you to acknowledge and take heed of because you are UNTOUCHABLES and have no chance of being DECEIVED so as to abandon or turn away from the FAITH ALONE that saves as you CLAIM? Have you become kings already and are reigning with Christ without the HOLY and PROMISED people of God who died and still waiting to be PERFECTED with the BODY OF CHRIST on the day when our Savior from heaven comes back?

...These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that ONLY TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 11:39-40, (Revelations 6:9-11)

Why would anyone need to be sanctified, purified, perfected, resurrected, glorified, stand firm to the end, face judgment, if all we need is to believe or have FAITH ALONE to be saved?

...Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8

What can a DISOBEDIENT OSAS follower expect if he refuse to acknowledge, take heed of such WARNINGS?

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25

... Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7
Someone told me of this post, so i opened all posts, i should have left it be.

Nothing of value here, only a self righteous person who thinks he is better than others.

This is the perfect example of the pharisee pumping his chest praising god he is not like the sinner, and judging the sinner, who is on their knees knowing how unworthy he is, askimg for gods mercy

Who was it jesus said went home justified?

Yeah, not the pharisee.

Back in the ignore bin he goes.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
113
Hi gb9,

How do I know you. The best I know you is only here on christian chat posting comments.
You seem to believe there is something more significant than that going on?
Is there? Do I know you in real life? And you never told me? Oh gosh.... you are not .... :ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
" know " was probably not the word.

familiar with is a better way to say it.

but my point remains the same.