Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Your post clearly stated that you think TT will be taken sooner then anyone of us...I do not lean on my own understanding , I trust in the LORD as He tells me to...You are talking about TT as if he is lost , he is not , he is Gods precious child , and you have no right to say what you said , your words were not comforting , but fearful , can you not see that...Your blow was way below the belt , your post had no love in it towards TT , but maybe bitterness to him because he called you out , and hence your unfruitful remark...
I am sorry Rosemary.

Do you understand that many come as angels of light but their hearts declares where they are?

I have simply said in Jesus we have the promise of transformation if we believe He can do this.
Now if anyone calls such a transformation not of God, they do not know Him.

Repentance and confession is about this change. We are the people of this change, everyday
He works His will in our hearts. If anyone stands against this change, we have no eternal future.

Only a fool would declare they will enter heaven as they are. Paul says this

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Cor 3:12-15

If one does not even have the foundation, lost in sin with the words of grace, one is truly lost.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone, it is their declaration of what they oppose that judges them.
The whole transformers mockery is another fruit of what his heart is full of.

Unfortunately in the world of the spiritual, the kingdom you invest in can measure your true loyalties.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
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Your post clearly stated that you think TT will be taken sooner then anyone of us...I do not lean on my own understanding , I trust in the LORD as He tells me to...You are talking about TT as if he is lost , he is not , he is Gods precious child , and you have no right to say what you said , your words were not comforting , but fearful , can you not see that...Your blow was way below the belt , your post had no love in it towards TT , but maybe bitterness to him because he called you out , and hence your unfruitful remark...
maybe bitterness to him

I cannot be bitter about a broken vessel incapable of believing Jesus brings us to Him as Paul describes

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.
1 Thess 5:23-24

Which is your Lord and master, He who has done a good work in you to completion or the man
who doubts the Lord can change anyone or is interested in change, repentance and the people of the Kingdom?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I am sorry Rosemary.

Do you understand that many come as angels of light but their hearts declares where they are?

I have simply said in Jesus we have the promise of transformation if we believe He can do this.
Now if anyone calls such a transformation not of God, they do not know Him.

Repentance and confession is about this change. We are the people of this change, everyday
He works His will in our hearts. If anyone stands against this change, we have no eternal future.

Only a fool would declare they will enter heaven as they are. Paul says this

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Cor 3:12-15

If one does not even have the foundation, lost in sin with the words of grace, one is truly lost.

I do not stand in judgement of anyone, it is their declaration of what they oppose that judges them.
The whole transformers mockery is another fruit of what his heart is full of.

Unfortunately in the world of the spiritual, the kingdom you invest in can measure your true loyalties.
This has nothing to do with your comment...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,710
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maybe bitterness to him

I cannot be bitter about a broken vessel incapable of believing Jesus brings us to Him as Paul describes

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.
1 Thess 5:23-24

Which is your Lord and master, He who has done a good work in you to completion or the man
who doubts the Lord can change anyone or is interested in change, repentance and the people of the Kingdom?
Now your remarks are aiming at me...You were wrong , and again assuming TT is lost...He does believe , and is very passionate about our LORD , and you should be very careful about making these sniding remarks against Gods children ...
Do you not think TT has his quiet thoughts of his own every day due to his sickness , he does not need you telling him YOU think he is going home to the LORD before any of us , he needs compassion and love ...By all means , debate about the word , but to be so personal against him was not Christ like , and that is shocking coming from someone who claims to follow His footsteps...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
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Are we a broken cistern or a beautiful vessel worthy of the King?

Some want to believe God the creator sees us and is happy to leave us alone, broken, empty and defeated.
But Gods desire is this

just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Eph 5:25-27

God does not leave us but transforms, heals and remakes us.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
Now your remarks are aiming at me...You were wrong , and again assuming TT is lost...He does believe , and is very passionate about our LORD , and you should be very careful about making these sniding remarks against Gods children ...
Do you not think TT has his quiet thoughts of his own every day due to his sickness , he does not need you telling him YOU think he is going home to the LORD before any of us , he needs compassion and love ...By all means , debate about the word , but to be so personal against him was not Christ like , and that is shocking coming from someone who claims to follow His footsteps...
I have a problem Rosemary.

I am called to warn those who oppose the living God. I have said what I have said.
If any believers heart is sound and right with God, amen, if not that is precisely what they need to hear.

Who should I obey, man or God?
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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I have a problem Rosemary.

I am called to warn those who oppose the living God. I have said what I have said.
If any believers heart is sound and right with God, amen, if not that is precisely what they need to hear.

Who should I obey, man or God?
Yes we should follow our LORD , but your comment to TT was very manly , very fleshy , now answer your own question...
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
Now your remarks are aiming at me...You were wrong , and again assuming TT is lost...He does believe , and is very passionate about our LORD , and you should be very careful about making these sniding remarks against Gods children ...
Do you not think TT has his quiet thoughts of his own every day due to his sickness , he does not need you telling him YOU think he is going home to the LORD before any of us , he needs compassion and love ...By all means , debate about the word , but to be so personal against him was not Christ like , and that is shocking coming from someone who claims to follow His footsteps...
you should be very careful about making these sniding remarks against Gods children

Deaf, dumb and blind - You are not listening and watching very well.
I do not judge anyone. I share scripture and what is clearly there.

My warning is from the Lord, about repentance and faith in Him for changing our lives.
You think such a warning is evil and wrong. God bless you Rosy

Do you know what this term means - "counterfeit gospels wrapped in sugar coated double talk."
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
They are evidence of faith in Christ and in our salvation, as you've stated.

No good works........no salvation.
So our good works give evidence to God?

Are you stating that without good works a person cannot be saved?

See you are not really writing about sanctification, you are writing about justification.:(
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,699
3,642
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so far, we have old and bitter, blind deaf and dumb.

just in the last 5 hours or so.

are you trying to get banned? ( again) ( for at least the 3rd time)?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
I ASK YOU AGAIN:
DO YOU SERIOUSLY EXPECT TO BECOME DEITY LIKE CHRIST ? ? ?
ARE YOU A MORMON ? ? ?
Hi vco,

We are to be like Jesus.

Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Cor 15:51-52

And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body
Phil 3:20-21

Being like Jesus is not being God.
It is to have His mind, His heart, His desires and to have a body like His glorious body.

And I am an evangelical christian. Maybe you do not know about our final goal in Christ
properly. I suggest you study a bit more, and answer the question of how do we go from
where we are to this place in heaven?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I ASK YOU AGAIN:


DO YOU SERIOUSLY EXPECT TO BECOME DEITY LIKE CHRIST ? ? ?

ARE YOU A MORMON ? ? ?
Oh he will do a little two step around this I am sure.;)

Although, I do not think he is Mormon, he has obviously taken "holiness" teachings of Wesley to nth degree of becoming perfect/sinless in this life, sinless in that his flesh is being transformed by emulating Jesus.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
Oh he will do a little two step around this I am sure.;)

Although, I do not think he is Mormon, he has obviously taken "holiness" teachings of Wesley to nth degree of becoming perfect/sinless in this life, sinless in that his flesh is being transformed by emulating Jesus.
So undergrace how do you answer John saying we should walk like Jesus?

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2:6

My first thought when I read this impossible, because we exalt Jesus so much, but do not
talk often enough about how he walked.

Now John knew Jesus on earth. So he should know how possible this is.
So how do you answer this? Or would you rather live in unbelief?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
113
Oh he will do a little two step around this I am sure.;)

Although, I do not think he is Mormon, he has obviously taken "holiness" teachings of Wesley to nth degree of becoming perfect/sinless in this life, sinless in that his flesh is being transformed by emulating Jesus.
I have to give you a star for recognising the theology I am supporting is Wesleyian, namely Nazarene church.
But slowly progress is being made, and some at least, understand this is more than just a personal position. :)

Mind you the condescension could be avoided if people did some homework.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I have to give you a star for recognising the theology I am supporting is Wesleyian, namely Nazarene church.
But slowly progress is being made, and some at least, understand this is more than just a personal position. :)

Mind you the condescension could be avoided if people did some homework.
I think you have gone beyond Wesleyanism and the Nazarene Church.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
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So our good works give evidence to God?
Are you stating that without good works a person cannot be saved?
See you are not really writing about sanctification, you are writing about justification.:(
Do leaves on a seed sprouting show the seed is alive or dead?
No leaves seed is dead. And if dead there will never be any leaves, ever.

But a live seed has to produces leaves and a root quickly or else it will die, normally dry up, or
a bird will come along and eat it, just as Jesus described.

Good works in terms of salvation probably mean spiritual words being spoken by the new believer
after coming to faith. Bit like connecting up the circuitry, not there, no circuitry.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,198
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I think you have gone beyond Wesleyanism and the Nazarene Church.
Sanctifying Grace is that grace of God which sustains the believers in the journey toward Christian Perfection: a genuine love of God with heart, soul, mind, and strength, and a genuine love of our neighbors as ourselves. Sanctifying grace enables us to respond to God by leading a Spirit-filled and Christ-like life aimed toward love.

What I find in people here, is any move to following Jesus, is painted as an extreme so it can be attacked.
But I am willing to be optimistic with anyone.

Do you believe we are capable of "leading a Spirit-filled and Christ-like life aimed toward love."
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,606
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Obviously we're speaking past each other here.
You keep saying that works do not save.
I AGREE.

Then you say that works are the fruit of salvation.
I'm not hung up on anything....

Why don't you reply to that long list of verses I posted?
They are to BELIEVERS.
Are we supposed to obey God or not?
Easy yes or no question.

Also, I feel we need to stop speaking about the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST.
Jesus FINISHED HIS work.....that doesn't mean YOU need do nothing.
He did what He was supposed to do,,,,now it's up to us.

This is accomplished by the sanctification of our spirit and thus our soul,,,since our spirit affects our soul.

We must cooperate with Godi in this process. It is not ONLY up to GOD, but also our cooperation:

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Without sanctification, no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:14:
Pursue peace with all people, and sanctification, without which no one will see the Lord.”

I'd say that works of obedience
do not HELP to save us....they are proof of our salvation.
If we do not demonstrate any works,,we most probably are not saved.
These are the visible effects of the Holy Spirit:
Galatians 5.22.....

If we do not show the above fruit...do we still have the Holy Spirit?
I say no. And Paul would agree or he would not have written the above verse.

Again,,,,you post Titus 3:5...it's painfully apparent to me that there is some confusion as to Justification and Sanctification. If one loses their sanctification, by default, they also lose their justification.

Could we at least agree on the difference between the two?
You insist on talking about Justification....and I'm on to Sanctification.
How many times must you be born from above? Once. Done. Now move on.

Yes. I can dissect good works from the Law. Must I post all those verses again?
They're written to BELIVIERS. Beliviers are already saved and do not need to be saved again every time they sin. (they need only feel sorry and ask forgiveness).

Works of the Law are in the MOSAIC COVENANT. Are you familiar with it?
We are not in the Mosaic Covenant but in the New Covenant...Are you familiar with it?
If yes, then please tell us the difference since Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law...but to make it MORE DIFFICULT.
Mathew 5.........

Clothing the naked is the commandment, as you've stated.
So? I don't understand your point.
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.....

Yes. It's in Leviticus...Jesus was well-trained in the O.T.
So???? FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. THIS is the whole point.
How are works not necessary if Jesus Himself said so?

The Two Great Commandments cover all the 9/10.
No problem there....I spent years teaching this to kids.
I don't understand your point.....

Are we to do good deeds or not?

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Also, I feel we need to stop speaking about the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST.


I can't believe you actually wrote this.


Proclaiming Christ Crucified​

1Co 2:1  And I, brothers, when I came to you, came not with puffed up speech or wisdom to declare unto you the testimony of God.


1Co 2:2  For I judged not to know anything among you, except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


1Co 2:3  And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling.


1Co 2:4  And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,


1Co 2:5  that your faith should not be founded in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God