Not By Works

[VCO]

Hi vco,

It seems you have only two issues with the statement of faith.
A question about infilling of the Holy Spirit, and losing ones salvation.

Now here is the kicker. Losing salvation is enough for you to disown their walk with God.

This is tick box legalism. And it is just emotional provocative language.
If this is the foundation for people to shout abuse, invent lies, slander, possession by the enemy,
evil intent, corruption etc. it shows the heart of the people involved is the issue not anything
about theology or the Kingdom.

Kick a slop bucket and slop comes out. A people are defined by how they treat their enemies.

God bless you, however you feel about me, the Lord loves you and desires to know you better.

This post is full of NON-Christian terminology, and seems strange coming from a supposed Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:4-5 (CSBBible)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not arrogant,
5 is not rude, is not self-seeking, is not irritable, and does not keep a record of wrongs.


I do not believe that Church-goers that HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN, are real Christians. Just pretend Christians, and when they Fall Away, it only PROVES they NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN IN THE FIRST PLACE. ONLY Born Again Christians will enter Heaven. I already have my invite to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, in my HEART (human spirit).

I was born again after three attempts at suicide the last week of 1977. I was dead serious when I SURRENDERED TO HIM, and the night I was SAVED, I WILLINGLY GAVE HIM TOTAL CONTROL OF MY LIFE, And HE has been obviously running it ever since. HIS Control of my LIFE, has been WAY BETTER than I ever Dreamed Possible.

Now How Do You KNOW IF YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN ?

IF NOT, then you are NOT SAVED, past tense.

That Post of Yours, and my reply, I will count as the #1 warning. I am only required to give you TWO Warnings, then I can put you on my Permanent IGNORE LIST.

Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.


On the subject of our SIN NATURE, I count ALL SIN EQUALLY BAD, AND AN OFFENSE TO GOD.

You if you are born again, you will want to confess it to the LORD, immediately. Not only Sins of Commission but SINS of OMISSION TOO.

Your Article of Faith, SEEMS to want to white wash supposed lesser sins, but that contradicts:


James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Interesting way of saying it!

In our normal being before knowing God....we have a sin nature which makes us tend to lean toward sin.
As Romans says,,,we are slaves to the one we serve and whether or not we care to know it,,,before salvation we most certainly are saving satan....even if we are not wicked persons just for the simple reason that we do not know God and are lost.

AFTER salvation the Holy Spirit endeavors to cleanse our heart. In fact, in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel God says He will give us a new heart, not made of stone, and on that heart He will write His laws.

This simply means that after knowing God we will WANT to keep His commandments.
This will greatly diminish the amount of sin in our lives,,,
what does this mean?

The closer we get to God....
The more we realize our sin.

The more we realize our sin,,,the more sensitive we are to it and the more we could say no to it.

This seems to me to be something to rejoice over...
not something to post on a thread meaning that there's something wrong with it.

I DO believe that a big misunderstanding is Wesley's idea of "entire sanctificaton" and some may understand this to mean NO SIN AT ALL,,,which is impossible when we realize HOW HOLY God is.

I now understand why some on here are accusing of the idea that, I included, are saying we never sin.

The misunderstanding is causing them to not even listen!

I'm glad this was brought up.....

Hi Grace101,

On a pure emotional level, take looking at a woman, flirting etc.
What young man does not do this given the opportunity. So when you
read what Jesus said, it is like, you got to be kidding.

One man I met asked me if you were offered sex with no chance of being caught
would you accept it. I said no. Sadly the man told me literally every man he had
ever asked said yes.

Why I was different was because I saw my sister fall apart, and how fragile and difficult
life is, and intimacy destroys the soul if not respected. So it was not about being good, it was
self preservation.

So my journey to see Jesus's words as the words of life have been slow and life long.
And the first step was always, Lord, I cannot, but teach me through your grace how to
and why and where, so that I might be like you. Amen.

I want to be in the world not of it, to know how and why things work and how the Holy Spirit
and Jesus can lead me through. And there is no arriving, because every step always has
the potential for failure, or be careful that you are not also tempted.

I also know many who are deeply scared through abuse on these very ideas. It is therefore
a difficult subject, but to be a disciple we have to face it.

 

[stonesoffire]

What should I do? I want my heart to be pure, rather than just going through the motions of doing kind acts towards people. Meaning: If I help you paint your house, thats great. But if I do it with a pure heart its better and its of faith then, I love to do it.

Whereas currently I would be painting and think "This sucks zzzz, why did I sign up for this?" I dont want it to be like that. I guess habits are hard to change.

I come from a world where you get ran over quick if you show emotions or are too helpful, so its harder to get back into civilian normal life! In the meanstreets its dog eat dog world!

Paul said that we are circumcised of flesh by heavenly hands. What you are experiencing is old habits. An unrenewed mind.

Read Ephesians Hev. Put your faith in Gods word not mans. You were dead in sin...now yoou are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Father sees His Son in you....not matter what stage you are of.

Stages for my understanding is Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles.

The blood on the door posts saved all the Hebrews. Rest in His blood.


back later...got pets to feed.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Hi Grace101,

On a pure emotional level, take looking at a woman, flirting etc.
What young man does not do this given the opportunity. So when you
read what Jesus said, it is like, you got to be kidding.

One man I met asked me if you were offered sex with no chance of being caught
would you accept it. I said no. Sadly the man told me literally every man he had
ever asked said yes.

Why I was different was because I saw my sister fall apart, and how fragile and difficult
life is, and intimacy destroys the soul if not respected. So it was not about being good, it was
self preservation.

So my journey to see Jesus's words as the words of life have been slow and life long.
And the first step was always, Lord, I cannot, but teach me through your grace how to
and why and where, so that I might be like you. Amen.

I want to be in the world not of it, to know how and why things work and how the Holy Spirit
and Jesus can lead me through. And there is no arriving, because every step always has
the potential for failure, or be careful that you are not also tempted.

I also know many who are deeply scared through abuse on these very ideas. It is therefore
a difficult subject, but to be a disciple we have to face it.

You've pretty much hit on every topic....

It's a matter of the heart.
We are in the world but not of it.
It's a life-long journey.
Trust God....not man (re the abuse on ideas ... God is love)

 

[GodsGrace101]

Paul said that we are circumcised of flesh by heavenly hands. What you are experiencing is old habits. An unrenewed mind.

Read Ephesians Hev. Put your faith in Gods word not mans. You were dead in sin...now yoou are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Father sees His Son in you....not matter what stage you are of.

Stages for my understanding is Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles.

The blood on the door posts saved all the Hebrews. Rest in His blood.


back later...got pets to feed.

How does this help anyone?
How does one renew their mind?
How do we get away from old habits?
What does Ephesians have to do with it?
How many stages are there'
What does Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacle mean?

This is why not everyone should teach.... It's a BIG responsibility, for which we will answer to God.
James 3:1

 

[FollowHisSteps]

This post is full of NON-Christian terminology, and seems strange coming from a supposed Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:4-5 (CSBBible)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. Love does not envy, is not boastful, is not arrogant,
5 is not rude, is not self-seeking, is not irritable, and does not keep a record of wrongs.


I do not believe that Church-goers that HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN, are real Christians. Just pretend Christians, and when they Fall Away, it only PROVES they NEVER WERE BORN AGAIN IN THE FIRST PLACE. ONLY Born Again Christians will enter Heaven. I already have my invite to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, in my HEART (human spirit).

I was born again after three attempts at suicide the last week of 1977. I was dead serious when I SURRENDERED TO HIM, and the night I was SAVED, I WILLINGLY GAVE HIM TOTAL CONTROL OF MY LIFE, And HE has been obviously running it ever since. HIS Control of my LIFE, has been WAY BETTER than I ever Dreamed Possible.

Now How Do You KNOW IF YOU HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN ?

IF NOT, then you are NOT SAVED, past tense.

That Post of Yours, and my reply, I will count as the #1 warning. I am only required to give you TWO Warnings, then I can put you on my Permanent IGNORE LIST.

Titus 3:10 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.


On the subject of our SIN NATURE, I count ALL SIN EQUALLY BAD, AND AN OFFENSE TO GOD.

You if you are born again, you will want to confess it to the LORD, immediately. Not only Sins of Commission but SINS of OMISSION TOO.

Your Article of Faith, SEEMS to want to white wash supposed lesser sins, but that contradicts:


James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

Hi vco,

Non christian terminology. I have spent my life trying to understand christian language and
explain it outside faith language. Faith language is a world of its own, that seems to make sense
but sometimes is just that, symbols people learn without knowing their meaning.

I apologise. You are not saying nazarene believers are not believers. That was me jumping to the
wrong conclusion.

I am glad to hear you were brought through to Christ and saved from depression etc.
Unfortunately this media means I will have to take more time and be more careful, as this is
such detail. When I have more time I will be able to respond better, I hope lol.

God bless you

 

[stonesoffire]

Let me do textual critism.
view ( undefined what being referred to ) equal zero ( a number meaning nothing) attempt to demean an individual,
but just conveys antagonism and lack of repect.

x of Christ => save while what you do keeps one saved, makes self on the throne, and dethrones Christ.
This is a summary of a theology, which is a version of easy believism.
Free grace theology

Faith alone, free choice, relationship differs from intimacy, justification differs from sanctification, eternal security, assurance of salvation, rewards and discipline

Repeating statments of theology as if it shows another believer does not know Jesus, is just a waste of time.
It would be easier to say you just follow Free grace theology.

I hope those who think they are in agreement with you now understand which camp you belong to.

I just did a search on free grace theology and got several different interpretations. Will the real free grace theology please stand up! lol

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Ok. My last post to you. This is about as close to admission that you are indeed the multiple-banned person Peter J. that I am likely to get.
I sincerely hope you get the help you need. I obviously can't control what others do, but I hope they put you and Fran on ignore like I have.
You 2 can be together for as long as you can stand each other.
To others, do not let this poster color your view of Nazarene Churches. As I have said, they have some things I don't agree with, but they are wonderful, Holy Spirit filled people.

I am slightly amused by this post. Our interaction has actually been almost zero.
And I am not difficult to see what I am saying or encouraging.

Yet this is a deep mystery. Does the slop bucket analogy upset you this much, it just causes your bucket
to spill? opps. It is why I love Jesus, He is so direct to how we feel about ourselves and what we need to
do.

So being on the ignore list of someone who does not interact is not a loss, it actually is not
noticeable, sorry to disappoint, sorry, sorry.

And I wish you well, God bless you, make Christ heart and love shine in your life and experience everyday.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I just did a search on free grace theology and got several different interpretations. Will the real free grace theology please stand up! lol

Hi Stones, free grace is not one group, and I have met a few versions of it.

Mainly they deny we need to obey and listen to Jesus's words, He was only speaking to the Jews,
and it is just to show how sinful we are, with no aspirational aspects, like we are meant to actually
learn how to love each other.

But what dcon outlined as a criticism of myself was the basic free grace theology outline.
This is why it helps see these arguments are not special to this forum but across the church.
And we need to find our answers with Jesus and His word.

It is how I walk everyday. God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Got to go to a passion play rehersal. Playing the part of Peter. A bit emotionally draining,
but what a witness for easter. God bless you all

 

[stonesoffire]

How does this help anyone?
How does one renew their mind?
How do we get away from old habits?
What does Ephesians have to do with it?
How many stages are there'
What does Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacle mean?

This is why not everyone should teach.... It's a BIG responsibility, for which we will answer to God.
James 3:1

How does this help anyone?
How does one renew their mind?
How do we get away from old habits?
What does Ephesians have to do with it?
How many stages are there'
What does Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacle mean?

This is why not everyone should teach.... It's a BIG responsibility, for which we will answer to God.
James 3:1

Everything we receive is by faith in truth. Renew the mind by the truth of the Word. Paul is our teacher being that we are the body of Christ. Never seen on earth before Jesus. Surprised I am that you didn't see it in the words believe Gods Word over mans.

Old habits of flesh or human nature has been dealt with when we receive the new nature. Repentance and turning to God. Being translated from darkness to Light. A new nature given and we know we are changed. Instantly. That's why I said the first fruit is zeal. We testify everywhere we go, but may not know exactly what we have been given.

Carnal is the old ways of thinking, the old ways of acting. Habits.

Ephesians explains the circumcision of flesh by God. Goes with the kingdom of darkness to light. And is the entrance of the kingdom of God within.

And....stages. Not sure how many....but I concentrate on the three.

Passover-seen in salvation by the blood of Jesus. Justification
Pentecost- Sanctification, separated unto God with giftings, callings. offices. His work. But Spirit.
Tabernacles- glorification. The fullness to come. As the soul becomes one with the Spirit is the process.

This is from the scriptures. Not a theology.

Thanks for the opportunity to teach.

 

[VCO]

Hi vco,

Non christian terminology. I have spent my life trying to understand christian language and
explain it outside faith language. Faith language is a world of its own, that seems to make sense
but sometimes is just that, symbols people learn without knowing their meaning.

I apologise. You are not saying nazarene believers are not believers. That was me jumping to the
wrong conclusion.

I am glad to hear you were brought through to Christ and saved from depression etc.
Unfortunately this media means I will have to take more time and be more careful, as this is
such detail. When I have more time I will be able to respond better, I hope lol.

God bless you

No, you got the wrong Idea. HE ALLOWED ME TO GET THAT DEPRESSED, SO THAT I WOULD BE Better EQUIPPED FOR THE MINISTRY HE WAS ALREADY ORCHESTRATING IN MY LIFE. HE INTENDED to USE my TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, to follow HIM WHEREVER HE WANTED ME TO GO.

Now I will tell you a BIT MORE about my Testimony. HIS purpose was NOT TO SAVE ME FROM DEPRESSION, it was to Prepare me to Minister as a Volunteer Chaplain, in the END OF THE LINE, PRISON, actually in the Security Housing Unit, "THE HOLE". If they messed up BAD ENOUGH, {ASSAULT ON STAFF}, in any prison in California, they will END UP in the S.H.U. in the Prison whey I Volunteered. Through a WHOLE SLEW of Minor Miracles, I ended up eventually, KNOWING I WAS TO VOLUNTEER at that PRISON.

NOW YOU TELL ME, how a Nebraska Farm Boy ends up with NO BIBLE COLLEGE AT ALL, in the END OF THE LINE PRISON, IN THE HOLE, TO MINISTER TO THE INMATES THEIR as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain ? HE KNOWS, not me.

It makes NO SENSE TO ME, but HE KEPT OPENING THE DOORS, AND I WAS FAITHFULLY WALKING THROUGH THOSE DOORS. As a Nebraska Farm Boy, I thought "there is nothing but FRUITS and NUTS, in California, so who wants to move there." YET HE PUT A BURNING DESIRE IN MY HEART TO MOVE THEIR. I DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHY, and it took about 3 years in Post Office Job, to get enough SENIORITY to get regular days off, SO that I could commit one those days off to the Ministry. After about 2 years, HE MOVED ME from north eastern CALIFORNIA to the COAST. BUT THIS TIME HE LET ME KNOW WHY HE WANTED ME IN CALIFORNIA. He wanted me to Start a Prison Ministry at the Newest Prison in California, and they were just bulldozing down the trees there. I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO START A PRISON MINISTRY, BUT I TRUSTED THE LORD TOTALLY, and I KNEW HE KNEW ALL ABOUT STARTING A PRISON MINISTRY. The Prison Staff INSISTED that I use the TITLE: Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain. I was their for 9.5 years, and then moved to another supermax Prison for 5.5 years, until I retired from the Post Office.


That it about as much as I need to tell you for now, but I cannot tell you how MANY minor Miracles He has to work out, to get me into that Volunteer Position. My experience, came handy, as they often called on me to Minister to inmates on Suicide Watch.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

No, you got the wrong Idea. HE ALLOWED ME TO GET THAT DEPRESSED, SO THAT I WOULD BE Better EQUIPPED FOR THE MINISTRY HE WAS ALREADY ORCHESTRATING IN MY LIFE. HE INTENDED to USE my TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, to follow HIM WHEREVER HE WANTED ME TO GO.

Now I will tell you a BIT MORE about my Testimony. HIS purpose was NOT TO SAVE ME FROM DEPRESSION, it was to Prepare me to Minister as a Volunteer Chaplain, in the END OF THE LINE, PRISON, actually in the Security Housing Unit, "THE HOLE". If they messed up BAD ENOUGH, {ASSAULT ON STAFF}, in any prison in California, they will END UP in the S.H.U. in the Prison whey I Volunteered. Through a WHOLE SLEW of Minor Miracles, I ended up eventually, KNOWING I WAS TO VOLUNTEER at that PRISON.

NOW YOU TELL ME, how a Nebraska Farm Boy ends up with NO BIBLE COLLEGE AT ALL, in the END OF THE LINE PRISON, IN THE HOLE, TO MINISTER TO THE INMATES THEIR as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain ? HE KNOWS, not me.

It makes NO SENSE TO ME, but HE KEPT OPENING THE DOORS, AND I WAS FAITHFULLY WALKING THROUGH THOSE DOORS. As a Nebraska Farm Boy, I thought "there is nothing but FRUITS and NUTS, in California, so who wants to move there." YET HE PUT A BURNING DESIRE IN MY HEART TO MOVE THEIR. I DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHY, and it took about 3 years in Post Office Job, to get enough SENIORITY to get regular days off, SO that I could commit one those days off to the Ministry. After about 2 years, HE MOVED ME from north eastern CALIFORNIA to the COAST. BUT THIS TIME HE LET ME KNOW WHY HE WANTED ME IN CALIFORNIA. He wanted me to Start a Prison Ministry at the Newest Prison in California, and they were just bulldozing down the trees there. I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO START A PRISON MINISTRY, BUT I TRUSTED THE LORD TOTALLY, and I KNEW HE KNEW ALL ABOUT STARTING A PRISON MINISTRY. The Prison Staff INSISTED that I use the TITLE: Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain. I was their for 9.5 years, and then moved to another supermax Prison for 5.5 years, until I retired from the Post Office.


That it about as much as I need to tell you for now, but I cannot tell you how MANY minor Miracles He has to work out, to get me into that Volunteer Position. My experience, came handy, as they often called on me to Minister to inmates on Suicide Watch.

Hi vco,

I just want to say amen. Walking in faith and truth, knowing His love sharing it with some of the most
violent and difficult people in the world, is quite a ministry. I can see how having depression helped you
to relate. One pastor I knew had never been depressed and whistled through life, so was little put out
when others did not find it quite so simple. Your guys have so many issues, without the right experience
I can see how it can easily go very wrong.

God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

........

I hope my friend, you can spare me a little patience.
We are culturally from very different backgrounds so it will take me sometime to get
my head into gear, God bless

 

[stonesoffire]

What did I assume???
You keep saying that IT IS FINISHED and that Jesus DID IT ALL.

I was responding to that and saying it's not so....
And that you should get PASSED IT.

Sorry if it got you upset...you sound upset.

Where did you see me "keep saying" it is finished?

Jesus did it all...all to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain...He washed me white as snow.

Not upset. How can I sound like anything when I am writing? Assumption. See?

 

[stonesoffire]

Where did you see me "keep saying" it is finished?

Jesus did it all...all to Him I owe. Sin had left a crimson stain...He washed me white as snow.

Not upset. How can I sound like anything when I am writing? Assumption. See?

Messed up the song.

Jesus paid it all. Finished Work.

 

[BillG]

AFTER salvation the Holy Spirit endeavors to cleanse our heart. In fact, in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel God says He will give us a new heart, not made of stone, and on that heart He will write His laws.

Not sure I would say the Holy Spirit endeavours to cleanse our hearts.
Given that we have been given a new heart of flesh

I look it at like he reveals the will of the Father in our lives at any given time and situation.

We then endeavour to strive to do what he has asked us to.
The reason I think this way is because the Holy Spirit will always be constant whereas we will not, therefore strive/endeavour to follow the will of the Father.

This is not me disagreeing with you, I just have a different take on it.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Everything we receive is by faith in truth. Renew the mind by the truth of the Word. Paul is our teacher being that we are the body of Christ. Never seen on earth before Jesus. Surprised I am that you didn't see it in the words believe Gods Word over mans.

Old habits of flesh or human nature has been dealt with when we receive the new nature. Repentance and turning to God. Being translated from darkness to Light. A new nature given and we know we are changed. Instantly. That's why I said the first fruit is zeal. We testify everywhere we go, but may not know exactly what we have been given.

Carnal is the old ways of thinking, the old ways of acting. Habits.

Ephesians explains the circumcision of flesh by God. Goes with the kingdom of darkness to light. And is the entrance of the kingdom of God within.

And....stages. Not sure how many....but I concentrate on the three.

Passover-seen in salvation by the blood of Jesus. Justification
Pentecost- Sanctification, separated unto God with giftings, callings. offices. His work. But Spirit.
Tabernacles- glorification. The fullness to come. As the soul becomes one with the Spirit is the process.

This is from the scriptures. Not a theology.

Thanks for the opportunity to teach.

I haven't learned anything yet.....
How does the soul become one with the spirit?
You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!
What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?
And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.
What does circumcision of the flesh mean?
God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?
What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?
What is receiving by faith in truth?

Theology is GOOD.
Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not sure I would say the Holy Spirit endeavours to cleanse our hearts.
Given that we have been given a new heart of flesh

I look it at like he reveals the will of the Father in our lives at any given time and situation.

We then endeavour to strive to do what he has asked us to.
The reason I think this way is because the Holy Spirit will always be constant whereas we will not, therefore strive/endeavour to follow the will of the Father.

This is not me disagreeing with you, I just have a different take on it.

It's all words.
A clean heart is a new heart.

I agree with you.
The important part is that God REMOVED our heart of stone and gave us a heart of FLESH.
Ezekiel.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Messed up the song.

Jesus paid it all. Finished Work.

LOL

I used to sing soprano in a church choir.
That was one of my favorite songs.

See. You did it again...

"Jesus paid it all...Finished Work"

Not only you, but many on here say this.
But then you spoke about sanctificataion and how we're to do God's work, just beforre this post.
So which is it?

Why so many verses on doing good deeds if Jesus did it all?
Are we Christians so lazy these days?