Not By Works
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Speaking of this bros
Read the Roman Catholic definition of faith. It includes baptism, right?
Enter Luther, enter the reformation. They came up with the slogan "Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, Sola deo Gloria and Sola cant rememberia." Basically: Faith alone through Christ alone. We the protestant church then picked up this slogan of Faith alone and still use it to this day.
BUT I would contend after reading Luther's writings that HE DID NOT believe in faith alone as we believe it. If you read the Lutheran catechism they STILL require baptism for salvation and teach it saves!
So much for faith alone! I wonder why they picked that slogan!
Read the Roman Catholic definition of faith. It includes baptism, right?
Enter Luther, enter the reformation. They came up with the slogan "Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, Sola deo Gloria and Sola cant rememberia." Basically: Faith alone through Christ alone. We the protestant church then picked up this slogan of Faith alone and still use it to this day.
BUT I would contend after reading Luther's writings that HE DID NOT believe in faith alone as we believe it. If you read the Lutheran catechism they STILL require baptism for salvation and teach it saves!
So much for faith alone! I wonder why they picked that slogan!
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This verse, along with Romans 1:5 is often cited and misinterpreted by works-salvationists in order to teach salvation by faith + obedience/works. Although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.
*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "UNTO" obedience/works.
Typical straw man argument.
I feel sad for a multitude of "nominal" Christians in various false religions and cults who were taught and have embraced a perverted gospel of works-salvation (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and refuse to repent and BELIEVE the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
I'm yet to hear genuine born again Christians say that authentic obedience is a bad thing. Expecting to be saved based on the merits of obedience/works (salvation by works) is a bad thing. Obedience which flows from a regenerate heart in the power of the Holy Spirit out of gratitude and love for the Lord is not a bad thing.
It will be too late for works-salvationists before Him on Judgment Day (Matthew 7:22-23).
*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "UNTO" obedience/works.
Typical straw man argument.
I feel sad for a multitude of "nominal" Christians in various false religions and cults who were taught and have embraced a perverted gospel of works-salvation (Galatians 1:6-9; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and refuse to repent and BELIEVE the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
I'm yet to hear genuine born again Christians say that authentic obedience is a bad thing. Expecting to be saved based on the merits of obedience/works (salvation by works) is a bad thing. Obedience which flows from a regenerate heart in the power of the Holy Spirit out of gratitude and love for the Lord is not a bad thing.
It will be too late for works-salvationists before Him on Judgment Day (Matthew 7:22-23).
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In Christ our love is His love, because love itself is the likeness of God put into our hearts.
To abide in Christ is to be part of Him, part of His body, part of the Kingdom of heaven.
Jesus is prepared to take up to His throne, because He makes us His friends, His love is our
foundation, it our heart song. So let His love flow, without restraint and do not judge love
just let it be the expression of your heart as your heart abide is our Lord, Amen
To abide in Christ is to be part of Him, part of His body, part of the Kingdom of heaven.
Jesus is prepared to take up to His throne, because He makes us His friends, His love is our
foundation, it our heart song. So let His love flow, without restraint and do not judge love
just let it be the expression of your heart as your heart abide is our Lord, Amen
Yes now that one is born again, they have the ability to obey His doctrine, His commandments, His truth.
Now that a person is born again, and empowered by the Spirit, to live in dominion over the sinful desires of the flesh, it’s a daily choice to walk according to the Spirit and obey the Spirit of truth, rather than obeying the lustful desires of our flesh.
We who are born again and filled with the Spirit of God, have a choice to live our lives in obedience to the Spirit of Christ, and practice righteousness or live as a slave to the desires of our flesh, and practice the works of the flesh.
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8
- but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
JPT
Here’s the truth.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
If you worship other gods, is that loving God or hating God?
- Loving God
- Hating God
If I murder my neighbor, is that loving my neighbor or hating them?
- Loving my neighbor
- Hating my neighbor
If I steal from my brother is that loving him?
- Loving my brother
- Hating my brother
JPT
Do ALL Lutheran churches teach that water baptism saves? I've never been a member of a Lutheran church, but just like other denominations, doctrine may vary from church to church and regardless of what others teach, salvation is by grace through faith in JESUS CHRIST ALONE - "apart from works" (including water baptism). Acts 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 15:8,9; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..
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You're writing on an open forum.
People are reading along.
Some are new Christians.
Are you telling new Christians that they don't have to obey the Moral Law?
THIS IS WHY I'M WORRIED ABOUT IT....
Because it's not true....
Jesus did not come to abolish the law,,,,in fact, He made it more difficult by moving it to the heart.
But then.....He sent the Holy Spirit to help us walk with God and be our paraclete.
So, why not just answer the question instead of asking a new one?
What about the following do you not agree with?
1 John 2:4
4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
People are reading along.
Some are new Christians.
Are you telling new Christians that they don't have to obey the Moral Law?
THIS IS WHY I'M WORRIED ABOUT IT....
Because it's not true....
Jesus did not come to abolish the law,,,,in fact, He made it more difficult by moving it to the heart.
But then.....He sent the Holy Spirit to help us walk with God and be our paraclete.
So, why not just answer the question instead of asking a new one?
What about the following do you not agree with?
1 John 2:4
4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
I’m canceling out nothing.
I’m stating scripture.
I’m teaching obedience to Christ.
His commandments
His doctrine
His law
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2
Fulfill.
verb (used with object)
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.
to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work
JPT
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“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
If you worship other gods, is that loving God or hating God?
- Loving God
- Hating God
If I murder my neighbor, is that loving my neighbor or hating them?
- Loving my neighbor
- Hating my neighbor
If I steal from my brother is that loving him?
- Loving my brother
- Hating my brother
JPT
I don't claim to understand why....
but Jesus said we are to be baptized.
Mathew 28:19
He sends the Apostles out on the Great Commission and tells them to make disciples of all nations and to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL that Jesus has taught.
He taught that we're to be baptized and Jesus is telling the Aposles that we are to observe what He taught, so we should be baptized.
I would do what Jesus said and not take any chances.
Disobedience runs deep once we start to disobey.....
1 John 2:4
It seems as if YOU make up Christian doctrine....
I DO BELIEVE that Jesus has already accomplished this.
but Jesus said we are to be baptized.
Mathew 28:19
He sends the Apostles out on the Great Commission and tells them to make disciples of all nations and to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL that Jesus has taught.
He taught that we're to be baptized and Jesus is telling the Aposles that we are to observe what He taught, so we should be baptized.
I would do what Jesus said and not take any chances.
Disobedience runs deep once we start to disobey.....
1 John 2:4
It seems as if YOU make up Christian doctrine....
I DO BELIEVE that Jesus has already accomplished this.
You can't tear down what God has built by teaching law. And that is what you are doing when all you have is judgemental thoughts about others. And are more concerned about the outward man and not what Jesus has given to us.
It's His blood, the power of His sacrifice that He's already performed and the ongoing affect of this on our lives that empowers the Spirit within us to walk as He walked. We are cleansed by blood. Not by our adhering to laws of we must do..
Teach the cleansing power of faith in His blood. What He has purchased for us. And walk in His power. The Word then becomes the living Word as we give Him to the world.
It's His blood, the power of His sacrifice that He's already performed and the ongoing affect of this on our lives that empowers the Spirit within us to walk as He walked. We are cleansed by blood. Not by our adhering to laws of we must do..
Teach the cleansing power of faith in His blood. What He has purchased for us. And walk in His power. The Word then becomes the living Word as we give Him to the world.
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Obedience to Christ.
If you want to peddle disobedience to Christ then that’s on you.
I’m teaching obedience to Christ.
His commandments
His doctrine
His law
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2
Fulfill.
verb (used with object)
to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.):a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time:He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.
to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively):She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work
It’s called the Truth.
JPT
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To read persons fight against the plain Word of God when it is presented to them,,,is indeed a sorry state of affairs for Christianity.
To see them fight against obedience....and then also state that they believe in obedience....
There is indeed confusion in our faith if this is what we've come to.
To see them fight against obedience....and then also state that they believe in obedience....
There is indeed confusion in our faith if this is what we've come to.
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The reformation was more about the authority of the church to define dogma, and its expression, rather than
individual believers, who establish a relationship with God and walk in it.
I know a catholic priest who wants to preach in his church, but the service only gives him 10-15 minutes.
You can just fit in a minor observation similar to a few notes here.
The idea believers could walk by the Holy Spirit inspired by the living God meant why have a church with
its traditions and power, literally state power and wealth. Like the pharisees this was like death to them.
Luther was a monk who objected to how the faith was expressed not its essentials.
Once people started to read scripture because of the printing press, then came all these expressions
as people were inspired. And praise God people are finding Jesus everywhere. Amen.
individual believers, who establish a relationship with God and walk in it.
I know a catholic priest who wants to preach in his church, but the service only gives him 10-15 minutes.
You can just fit in a minor observation similar to a few notes here.
The idea believers could walk by the Holy Spirit inspired by the living God meant why have a church with
its traditions and power, literally state power and wealth. Like the pharisees this was like death to them.
Luther was a monk who objected to how the faith was expressed not its essentials.
Once people started to read scripture because of the printing press, then came all these expressions
as people were inspired. And praise God people are finding Jesus everywhere. Amen.
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