Not By Works

[Hevosmies]

Don't believe the truth then. You can never stand before God and say you were shown the truth.

You are bearing false witness here saying they (reformed and others who believe in eternal security) havent stopped "even one sin" and claiming to be sinless at the same time. Shall i go back and lets look at it again verbatim?

I hope nobody thats recently saved reads your hopeless gospel of you have to be PERFECT since day one to be saved. NOBODY is saved in your fake belief system. Yet Revelation 5:9 tells us God has bought for Himself a people from every nation tongue tribe etc.

This guy is out to bring you down not lift you up! Slandering good pastors across the globe, missionaries, who have probably done FAR MORE for God than you have. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? My pastor is reformed, we may not agree on 100% everything but I respect him greatly and I can assure you its mutual!

Im waiting for your apology!

 

[YourTruthGod]

When I was a judaizer I used this argument too, its a poor argument.

I will quote @mailmandan from the first page of this thread, he said:



So its not by those works, but these works. You see that?

I believe a better explanation WOULD be, the next verse! Which states:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So here is how I see it laid out: MY HUMBLE OPINION:

God has saved us by grace through faith, and its not of ourselves but its a GIFT given by God, and because its a gift we cant boast about it, NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT, since its not of yourself, we are dead in trespasses and sins until GOD steps in! And now that God has saved us, we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them...

First part: Justification, immediate.
Second part: Sanctification, ongoing until the day we go to be with the Lord, or until the Lord comes back one of these days!

I hope you read these scriptures carefully because they explain that THE WORKS OF THE LAW are the PURIFICATION works.

Romans 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[Endoscopy]

Hi B,,,,

Can't hang around tonight...
But just caught the above randomly...
Do you realize that it proves OSAS is wrong?

Why else would Jesus pray that someone's faith should not fail?
Surely it means, then, that it's possible.

Jesus even uses the expression "return to me" which implies that they left at some point.

We must stay close to Jesus and follow Him in order to be saved.

J

You are bearing false witness here saying they (reformed and others who believe in eternal security) havent stopped "even one sin" and claiming to be sinless at the same time. Shall i go back and lets look at it again verbatim?

I hope nobody thats recently saved reads your hopeless gospel of you have to be PERFECT since day one to be saved. NOBODY is saved in your fake belief system. Yet Revelation 5:9 tells us God has bought for Himself a people from every nation tongue tribe etc.

This guy is out to bring you down not lift you up! Slandering good pastors across the globe, missionaries, who have probably done FAR MORE for God than you have. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? My pastor is reformed, we may not agree on 100% everything but I respect him greatly and I can assure you its mutual!

Im waiting for your apology!

Here is the quote of Jesus about OSAS. Live with what Jesus said.

OSAS

John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

[YourTruthGod]

When I was a judaizer I used this argument too, its a poor argument.

I will quote @mailmandan from the first page of this thread, he said:



So its not by those works, but these works. You see that?

I believe a better explanation WOULD be, the next verse! Which states:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So here is how I see it laid out: MY HUMBLE OPINION:

God has saved us by grace through faith, and its not of ourselves but its a GIFT given by God, and because its a gift we cant boast about it, NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT, since its not of yourself, we are dead in trespasses and sins until GOD steps in! And now that God has saved us, we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them...

First part: Justification, immediate.
Second part: Sanctification, ongoing until the day we go to be with the Lord, or until the Lord comes back one of these days!

It is never ever shameful to obey God. It was only boastful for the Jews who had the purifiation/ceremonial works of the law---that is the boasting that is no more.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

Romans 2:23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

 

[VCO]

Don't believe the truth then. You can never stand before God and say you were shown the truth.

Your SUPPOSED Truth has been should to be a FALSE DOCTRINE, FROM YOUR FALSE PROPHET.

ALMOST NO ONE on this thread or site, will believe YOU. You are wasting time here.

 

[YourTruthGod]

When I was a judaizer I used this argument too, its a poor argument.

I will quote @mailmandan from the first page of this thread, he said:

So its not by those works, but these works. You see that?

I believe a better explanation WOULD be, the next verse! Which states:

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So here is how I see it laid out: MY HUMBLE OPINION:

God has saved us by grace through faith, and its not of ourselves but its a GIFT given by God, and because its a gift we cant boast about it, NOTHING TO BOAST ABOUT, since its not of yourself, we are dead in trespasses and sins until GOD steps in! And now that God has saved us, we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them...

First part: Justification, immediate.
Second part: Sanctification, ongoing until the day we go to be with the Lord, or until the Lord comes back one of these days!

Just believe what is written:

Read this scripture, Paul is saying he hopes we can come to UNDERSTAND FULLY that YOU CAN BOAST in him as he will boast in the saved. This is simple, clear language.

For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.

Read this next scripture. Paul shows us he boasts. He says his conscience testified that he has conducted himself in a godly way. He is not just boasting about himself, but in 'us'.

2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.

This next scripture shows Paul boasting to Titus about the church in Corinth for repenting; something you said we cannot boast in.

2 Corinthians 7:14 I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.

Here Paul says that he could boast:

2 Corinthians 12:6 Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth.

Paul says he would rather die than be deprived of his boast:

1 Corinthians 9:15 But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me, for I would rather die than allow anyone to deprive me of this boast.

Obvious boasting from Paul, he actually says it plainly and proudly:

2 Corinthians 11:10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. 11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do! 12 But I will keep on doing what I am doing, in order to undercut those who want an opportunity to be regarded as our equals in the things they boast about.

You have been taught wrong.

 

[Hevosmies]

It is never ever shameful to obey God.

Burn the strawman!

Quote me someone who has said or even implied that its SHAMEFUL to obey God?

 

[YourTruthGod]

You are bearing false witness here saying they (reformed and others who believe in eternal security) havent stopped "even one sin" and claiming to be sinless at the same time. Shall i go back and lets look at it again verbatim?

I hope nobody thats recently saved reads your hopeless gospel of you have to be PERFECT since day one to be saved. NOBODY is saved in your fake belief system. Yet Revelation 5:9 tells us God has bought for Himself a people from every nation tongue tribe etc.

This guy is out to bring you down not lift you up! Slandering good pastors across the globe, missionaries, who have probably done FAR MORE for God than you have. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? My pastor is reformed, we may not agree on 100% everything but I respect him greatly and I can assure you its mutual!

Im waiting for your apology!

You are a false judge.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Obey does not negate all the scripture which says we are SAVED BY FAITH

Obey is just a discription of those who are saved.

Works of the law are not in contet in any of the passages I gave, nice try.

You should forget about descriptive and prescriptive and just pay attention to what JESUS says...

Obedience is a condition of salvation:

John 14:23-24
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Here is the quote of Jesus about OSAS. Live with what Jesus said.

OSAS

John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand

They better be careful then, because it can be a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't believe the truth then. You can never stand before God and say you were shown the truth.

Same can be said of you

Instead of spouting off. Prove me wong, By showing me where in all of those passages I got it wrong.

Actions speak alot louder than words. Or have you not heard that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you, I like how gets turned around and it is my problem for questioning......MY goodness!!!

Its called pass the buck

Its no different than when people try to expose your sins to hide their own, then deny they even have sin. Its sad, But also to be expected.. Been ging on for many thousands of years now.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Burn the strawman!

Quote me someone who has said or even implied that its SHAMEFUL to obey God?

Are you kidding? I am being condemned by people here for saying we have to obey.
Go study some more. I tried to help you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Revelation 11:13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand were killed in the quake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Luke 12:47 "The servant who knows the master's will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

Revelation 16:21 15“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

Revelation 18:4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“ ‘Come out of her, my people,’

so that you will not share in her sins,

so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

So end times passages which speak of those times prove your right?

Wow dude, again, all you prove is how you need to go find a real church. And stop listing to voices in your head. Or whoever it is you are listening too.

 

[GodsGrace101]

J
Here is the quote of Jesus about OSAS. Live with what Jesus said.

OSAS

John 10 NIV. No one can snatch them out of My hand

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

WEll E, you already know what my answer will be, don't you?

NO ONE can snatch us out of God's hand.
I agree.

Of course,,, since I have free will,,, I can WALK OUT of my own free will.

Do you think we no longer have free will because we have been saved?
Does salvation take away our free will?

Could you find a verse that says this??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul is speaking about the works of the law, which are the purification works.

In Ephesians it is about doing good after being saved, which does NOT nullify the fact that we have to do something with our faith when we want to get saved, like REPENT OF OUR SINS.

The boasting no one can do now is what the Jews did with the PURIFICATION WORKS of the law.

Paul does NOT say we can't boast in obeying God!

Paul tell us he boasts in himself and us, and how we can do the same.

Wrong, This is made up nonsense, I am not sure where you got this from but it is so far out there it is not even believable

Ephesians was written to a gentile church, the law was not in question in the book at all..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is never ever shameful to obey God. It was only boastful for the Jews who had the purifiation/ceremonial works of the law---that is the boasting that is no more.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--

Romans 2:23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?

No one said it is shamefull to obey God

Do you evber stop with your lies? How can you live with yourself?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are a false judge.

Another strawman,

You are left without proof so all you have left is to attack others to take the focus off yourself

Your not the first to do this. And you will suffer the same fate of all those who came before you doing the same thing

Wake up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They better be careful then, because it can be a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of God.

You better hold this up in a mirror and read it to yourself. Because you the one who needs to heed these words.

 

[Hevosmies]

You are a false judge.

Nope!

I knew you would try to do a rabbit trail evasion trick on me:

Here it is:

You know, the people who fight for faith alone, I have realized that they have not obeyed Jesus in any way and have not stopped one sin, or else they would preach obedience too. It is so good to obey Jesus.

Your own words! BEARING FALSE WITNESS. Im still waiting for apology.
LIAR!