Not By Works
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Remember, the root of his argument is we do not believe in obedience, or preach it. We do not believe in changed lives, and an all powerful God who takes darkness and turns them into light. He is to busy try8ing to puff up how many great works he does and how righteous he is to even see what is really going on..
So he can not fathom that we have or know people who have powerful testimonies.. In fact, if we did, it would go against what he believes, so even if we say it, He will not believe it.
So he can not fathom that we have or know people who have powerful testimonies.. In fact, if we did, it would go against what he believes, so even if we say it, He will not believe it.
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You do a good job of boasting in yourself. As for me, I only boast in Christ. Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 
Jesus told His disciples to preach the Gospel unto all nations and teach them to OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. (Matthew 28:18-20)
Now those who adhere to the Lord's instructions are called "IDIOTIC", WORKS SALVATIONISTS, SINLESS PERFECTIONISTS, SALVATION LOSERS ETC. Insulting and mocking the idea of OBEDIENCE TO GOD as PART OF SALVATION. (See Hebrews 5:7-9)
They are calling evil GOOD and good EVIL. (Isaiah 5:20-24)
What is NOTICEABLE is how this people PROUDLY and CONTINUOUSLY calling themselves "SINNERS" even after claiming at the same time that they were BORN AGAIN of incorruptible seed.
(A double personality suffering from SCHIZOPHRENIA who love to DOUBLE TALK.)
I am not insulting or mocking anyone but just EXPOSING them to lead them to godly sorrow and somehow REPENT.
...When I say to a wicked man, ‘YOU WILL SURELY DIE,’ and you do not warn him or speak out to DISSUADE HIM FROM HIS EVIL WAYS in order TO SAVE HIS LIFE, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you ACCOUNTABLE for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do WARN the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, HE WILL SURELY LIVE because HE TOOK WARNING, and you will have saved yourself.” Ezekiel 3:18-21
... “Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be SHAMEFULLY EXPOSED.” Revelation 16:15
...“YOU HAVE SAID HARSH THINGS AGAINST ME,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “THEY WILL BE MINE,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between THE RIGHTEOUS and THE WICKED, between THOSE WHO SERVE God and THOSE WHO DO NOT. Malachi 3:13-18
...I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE—
Romans 15:18
What are you teaching?
Aren't you leading believers to DISOBEY GOD?
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter NO ONE SHOULD WRONG HIS BROTHER OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIM. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and WARNED YOU. FOR GOD DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, but to LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, HE WHO REJECTS THIS INSTRUCTION DOES NOT REJECT MAN BUT GOD, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
...See to it that you DO NOT REFUSE HIM who speaks. IF THEY DID NOT ESCAPE when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, IF WE TURN AWAY FROM HIM WHO WARNS US FROM HEAVEN? Hebrews 12:25
...The Spirit clearly says that in later times some WILL ABANDON THE FAITH and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Those who will ABANDON THEIR FAITH are those who CLAIM to have FAITH but without works...DEAD...NO POWER...
...“WHY do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and DO NOT DO WHAT I SAY? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and HEARS MY WORDS and PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and DOES NOT PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.” Luke 6:46-49
..."FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD."...James 2:26
...LET GOD BE TRUE...GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...(Romans 3:3-4 & Galatians 6:7-10)
If you really are obedient to God then teach us to OBEY GOD...what hinders you to do so and would rather attack those who continue in His teachings?
...On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. John 14:20-24
...Why do you call me "Lord, Lord", and do not do what I say?
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Will you consider something carefully I want to say to you about what you so nicely explained to me here? Please listen carefully...
Many people here are saying it. Most say it is the way to get saved, and how obeying has nothing ever to do with our salvation after believing. Some even say that our believing didn't have anything to do with our getting saved (Calvinism). So please stop saying nobody is saying don't obey God. You are saying to believe and do not do anything else and that that is obeying.
Faith without right action IS EMPTY no matter how strong and wonderful faith is. We are not saved by just faith and then a wait and see if that faith was a live saving faith if the person obeys later. I have actually had people argue that to me---they say, "faith alone to get saved and then after they are saved they will start to obey". Then I say what if they don't start obeying? The person said to me, "Then their faith was not real."
Did you hear that? That means then faith alone IS dead and cannot save---just like James says.
See! That is what you are saying too, just like I said you do, even though you deny it.
We are not saved through faith in Christ in the first place unless you do something, like humble yourself and repent of a sin and called on Jesus.
Believe me, I understand exactly what you are saying. You explain your beliefs well! It's just that you need to really consider harder what I am saying.
Catholics don't believe in faith alone, or works that Jesus tells us. Jesus says to humble yourself and repent; not, baptize babies who can do no such thing.
I really do understand how hard it must be to think you finally see and have your eyes opened by God, but then have to give it up because it was false. I tell you though, the true light is better than that.
Let me give you an example from my own life. I have a powerful testimony of when I was saved. Even after this powerful salvation, confusion came when I joined a Christian discussion group and there were some people who took extra interest in me and started to convince me about Calvinism being truth. I just couldn't make any sense about what they said. I was so confused, but when I finally understood it, I thought it was God was opening my eyes to His truth. I wanted to learn more about it though and make sure, since I had been in false denominations before. I wanted to know the truth so bad that I hardly ate and sleep for the next couple of weeks while I studied; I even thought about it in my sleep. That's how important it was to me. I finally could see that Calvinism was false. But what would have been horrible is if I kept those false beliefs that I felt when I first 'got it'.
What I am trying to say is that just because you 'got it' concerning the faith alone doctrine, it doesn't mean it is the true light. KWIM?
Many people here are saying it. Most say it is the way to get saved, and how obeying has nothing ever to do with our salvation after believing. Some even say that our believing didn't have anything to do with our getting saved (Calvinism). So please stop saying nobody is saying don't obey God. You are saying to believe and do not do anything else and that that is obeying.
Faith without right action IS EMPTY no matter how strong and wonderful faith is. We are not saved by just faith and then a wait and see if that faith was a live saving faith if the person obeys later. I have actually had people argue that to me---they say, "faith alone to get saved and then after they are saved they will start to obey". Then I say what if they don't start obeying? The person said to me, "Then their faith was not real."
Did you hear that? That means then faith alone IS dead and cannot save---just like James says.
See! That is what you are saying too, just like I said you do, even though you deny it.
We are not saved through faith in Christ in the first place unless you do something, like humble yourself and repent of a sin and called on Jesus.
Believe me, I understand exactly what you are saying. You explain your beliefs well! It's just that you need to really consider harder what I am saying.
Catholics don't believe in faith alone, or works that Jesus tells us. Jesus says to humble yourself and repent; not, baptize babies who can do no such thing.
*BUT NOW I BELIEVE (Romans 1:16) and the blinders have been removed. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) Praise God!
Praise God!
Let me give you an example from my own life. I have a powerful testimony of when I was saved. Even after this powerful salvation, confusion came when I joined a Christian discussion group and there were some people who took extra interest in me and started to convince me about Calvinism being truth. I just couldn't make any sense about what they said. I was so confused, but when I finally understood it, I thought it was God was opening my eyes to His truth. I wanted to learn more about it though and make sure, since I had been in false denominations before. I wanted to know the truth so bad that I hardly ate and sleep for the next couple of weeks while I studied; I even thought about it in my sleep. That's how important it was to me. I finally could see that Calvinism was false. But what would have been horrible is if I kept those false beliefs that I felt when I first 'got it'.
What I am trying to say is that just because you 'got it' concerning the faith alone doctrine, it doesn't mean it is the true light. KWIM?
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I really do hear how badly you want me to understand, and it does mean so much to me that you care, as I think all of us do that are here. Think about it, we are here in a discussion group about God. We spend hours of our life here every day and would rather be talking about God more than anything else. But I tell you, the obeying Jesus part is salvation, it is how we don't accept false doctrines and end up in false denominations. It is how we enter salvation in the first place. I believed in Jesus since a very young child, and was not given the Holy Spirit and saved until I was much older, and it was only after I started to obey Jesus.
Three questions:
1. Is salvation a gift?
2. Is grace unmerited?
3. How many sins have yet to be atoned/paid for?
Answers:
1. Yes (Romans 4:4-6, 5:12-17, 6:23, John 4:10, 2 Corinthians 9:15, Ephesians 2:8-9, 3:7, 4:7-8, Acts 2:38)
2. Yes (2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 3:28, 11:5-6, John 3:16, 5:24, 6:28-29, 47, Galatians 3:8, 26)
3. ZERO (Romans 6:10, 1 John 1:7, 29, 2:2, Colossians 1:20, 22 2:13, Hebrews 10:14)
Case closed.
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Ooh don't forget the next verses
Romans 8:29-30 (NKJV)
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
I like the NLT
Romans 8:28-30 (NLT Study Bible Text,)
28 And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
Anyway the point I want to make comes from V29, leading on from V28.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
So to me God works in us in all things.
Our past, our present.
All hurts, pains and sins. He deals with us, heals, corrects, chastises us.
He doesn't make bad things good. He can't.
For the purpose of V29.
To conform us to the image of Jesus.
To become more Christlike.
Now that is really good news.
Romans 8:29-30 (NKJV)
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
I like the NLT
Romans 8:28-30 (NLT Study Bible Text,)
28 And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
Anyway the point I want to make comes from V29, leading on from V28.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God,
So to me God works in us in all things.
Our past, our present.
All hurts, pains and sins. He deals with us, heals, corrects, chastises us.
He doesn't make bad things good. He can't.
For the purpose of V29.
To conform us to the image of Jesus.
To become more Christlike.
Now that is really good news.
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The Lord knows. We walk in grace, learning how to follow after our Lord.
Do those who follow not weep when sin encrouches on their life or just
say so what?
It seems some teach believe through sin that everything in Christ is ok.
It is like a horror film, waking up with a knife in your hand dripping blood,
it is not your fault, it is your flesh that will be dumped for a perfect version
that does not have these sinful problems, so no worries.
Bit of a shock when the junked body comes with a junked spirit, bit late
then, opps.....
Do those who follow not weep when sin encrouches on their life or just
say so what?
It seems some teach believe through sin that everything in Christ is ok.
It is like a horror film, waking up with a knife in your hand dripping blood,
it is not your fault, it is your flesh that will be dumped for a perfect version
that does not have these sinful problems, so no worries.
Bit of a shock when the junked body comes with a junked spirit, bit late
then, opps.....
You turn boasting in the cross into boasting in self.
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Are you kidding? Read what Paul is boasting about:
2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.
Did you read that?
Paul says this is our boast: the way they conducted themselves.
Read this scripture:
2 Corinthians 7:14 I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.
What is Paul boasting in? He is boasting in the conduct of another person!
2 Corinthians 1:12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, with integrity and godly sincerity. We have done so, relying not on worldly wisdom but on God's grace.
Did you read that?
Paul says this is our boast: the way they conducted themselves.
Read this scripture:
2 Corinthians 7:14 I had boasted to him about you, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our boasting about you to Titus has proved to be true as well.
What is Paul boasting in? He is boasting in the conduct of another person!
A faith with no power is a faith that does not produce believers with a desire to
be like Jesus because they do not love Him or His walk.
The lie is when believers who think sinning is acceptable, and the way of love
is the way of death and judgement.
But then if unbeleivers claim to know Jesus yet have no ability to walk like
Jesus, this is the best comprise they can come up with.
But His sheep know His voice, listen and follow. So Praise God there is not
defeat or failure, just sadness that people could come so close and yet not
believe the creator of the world came with a promise of freedom and transformation.
be like Jesus because they do not love Him or His walk.
The lie is when believers who think sinning is acceptable, and the way of love
is the way of death and judgement.
But then if unbeleivers claim to know Jesus yet have no ability to walk like
Jesus, this is the best comprise they can come up with.
But His sheep know His voice, listen and follow. So Praise God there is not
defeat or failure, just sadness that people could come so close and yet not
believe the creator of the world came with a promise of freedom and transformation.