Not By Works
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So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:9-10
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:9-10
Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you.
Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other.
1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.
Romans 16:12
It does not take much reading to realise those who serve the Lord work hard, strive,
have goals and desire to meet them with effort.
It is suprising therefore to hear you can achieve all that takes effort, perseverance and
patience but just resting. Suggests to me you do not see the goal or how to reach it or
how scripture warns us about the true cost, which is our lives.
So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:9-10
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9
This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance
(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:9-10
Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you.
Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other.
1 Thessalonians 5:12-13
Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord.
Romans 16:12
It does not take much reading to realise those who serve the Lord work hard, strive,
have goals and desire to meet them with effort.
It is suprising therefore to hear you can achieve all that takes effort, perseverance and
patience but just resting. Suggests to me you do not see the goal or how to reach it or
how scripture warns us about the true cost, which is our lives.
The reality is I presume very little, and that which I observe you confirm by your responses.
I have said many times I am not a works salvationist, I take a traditional view to faith alone
in Christ with works as the fruit of our faith. The truth is though, you are far from the traditional
theological view that most christians would recognise. As one of my pastors does not even know
your view on theology even exists. The reason is simple, it is not in scripture. You can construct
it by ignoring large sections and points, but only then.
This is why I suggest no one here is really a theological student and most theological students
could not be bothered to put effort in, to try and refute points that are so failed and shot through.
I have said many times I am not a works salvationist, I take a traditional view to faith alone
in Christ with works as the fruit of our faith. The truth is though, you are far from the traditional
theological view that most christians would recognise. As one of my pastors does not even know
your view on theology even exists. The reason is simple, it is not in scripture. You can construct
it by ignoring large sections and points, but only then.
This is why I suggest no one here is really a theological student and most theological students
could not be bothered to put effort in, to try and refute points that are so failed and shot through.
Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Hebrews 9:1 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.
Acts 24:18 I was ceremonially clean when they found me in the temple courts doing this. There was no crowd with me, nor was I involved in any disturbance.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Hebrews 9:1 Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.
Acts 24:18 I was ceremonially clean when they found me in the temple courts doing this. There was no crowd with me, nor was I involved in any disturbance.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
...“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18
"DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD" or "OBEDIENCE TO GOD"?
...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering ACCEPTABLE TO GOD, SANCTIFIED by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my SERVICE TO GOD. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE — Romans 15:15-18
...It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and warned you. For GOD DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, BUT TO LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
"DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD" or "OBEDIENCE TO GOD"?
...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering ACCEPTABLE TO GOD, SANCTIFIED by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my SERVICE TO GOD. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE — Romans 15:15-18
...It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. THE LORD WILL PUNISH MEN FOR ALL SUCH SINS, as we have already told you and warned you. For GOD DID NOT CALL US TO BE IMPURE, BUT TO LIVE A HOLY LIFE. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
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Can I suggest something? I know from my own experience, we live with our approach to life,
and until God shines a light and we grow we easily make mistakes and claim things and respond
in ways that do not match with our ambitions.
So I try and walk in grace and forgiveness, seeing the strengths and hoping and praying God will
heal and guide the weaknesses. And yes often we are right about certain aspects, but the small
issue can become a mountain and then the judgement of heaven should fall etc.
I have seen such things happen on these forums, over one word used badly or taken badly, and
it is like a serious crime or sin has taken place. Anyway I appreaciate you and your insight, can
you bear with the weaker brother, and the areas they still need to grow into. God bless you brother.
and until God shines a light and we grow we easily make mistakes and claim things and respond
in ways that do not match with our ambitions.
So I try and walk in grace and forgiveness, seeing the strengths and hoping and praying God will
heal and guide the weaknesses. And yes often we are right about certain aspects, but the small
issue can become a mountain and then the judgement of heaven should fall etc.
I have seen such things happen on these forums, over one word used badly or taken badly, and
it is like a serious crime or sin has taken place. Anyway I appreaciate you and your insight, can
you bear with the weaker brother, and the areas they still need to grow into. God bless you brother.
Hebrews 9:13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
E
Smh
But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
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Well not sure why you have supported the comments made by those who have stated very clearly on this thread that works are necessary for salvation then
I will just disregard the rest of what you written since my theology is more orthodox than yours.
I will just disregard the rest of what you written since my theology is more orthodox than yours.
To say which some do, behaviour is not at Gods heart and our walk is heresy. I will not put a line and say
where God does not put a line, but expresses both we are saved by Faith which expresses itself through works,
I must support both perspectives.
Proving or justifying our worthiness through works is absurd, except without the Lord changing us in reality
salvation is not at work in our hearts or real. And even deeper to believe there is value in making believers
enemies this is also heresy.
On orthordoxy I have attended most of the core evangelical congregations denominations at one point or
another. I have worked with parachurch organisations who have fellowship across these boundaries.
So if I am the enemy, then whoever calls me such is an enemy to these congregations also.
As was openly declared by one member, "main line christian churches have got it wrong"
Now maybe you have bought into this undeclared position and theology, but I never will, because I know
what I am in Jesus, and time and again all the positions you have put forward are just clearly wrong.
It does not even take much effort to show this, it is overflowing from scripture.
1. Spirit of a person is their attitude to life, emotional, approach, reactions
2. Work and strive to get to our goals in Christ
3. Works / fruit are essential to the reality of faith at work in our hearts
4. Our hearts need to be cleansed and made Holy to walk in the Holy Spirit
None of the above is difficult to show 100% correctly taught, yet many dispute these simple points.
The root in their hearts must be off to simply ignore the reality.
And I have, you STILL havent:
Bearing false witness while claiming obedience and downtrodding others while refusing to apologize. Proper Pharisee stuff
But hey, I apologize, AGAIN! Got no problem with that, ive done it many times here. Are you too proud to do so? Shouldn't you worry about your LEGO-plan of salvation crumbling with that bearing of false witness on your record?
Last time im bringing this up, maybe its just impossible for you......... being a deceived deceiver and a heretic, you know? Your Doityourself IKEA plan of salvation has NOBODY saved,that includes you,but then again you are too prideful to see that. Sad to see how badly the devil can deceive people
Bearing false witness while claiming obedience and downtrodding others while refusing to apologize. Proper Pharisee stuff
But hey, I apologize, AGAIN! Got no problem with that, ive done it many times here. Are you too proud to do so? Shouldn't you worry about your LEGO-plan of salvation crumbling with that bearing of false witness on your record?
Last time im bringing this up, maybe its just impossible for you......... being a deceived deceiver and a heretic, you know? Your Doityourself IKEA plan of salvation has NOBODY saved,that includes you,but then again you are too prideful to see that. Sad to see how badly the devil can deceive people
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