Not By Works

[mailmandan]

It is an interesting point.
saints - godly, Holy One

This is not unbelievers or sinners - This is the point, a sinner is not a saint.

If you are prepared to say there is no difference between sinner and saint you can go where you are going.
I cannot because that is universalism.

My point was that God's faithful one's/godly one's/saints are preserved forever. Of course these are not unbelievers and their sins have been washed in the blood of Christ. Who mentioned anything about universalism?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The above is all true, but the focus of that security is the question.
I see my security in Christ and the cross, the eternal reality that He loves me despite my sin and failure
and is willing to transform me into His likeness.

That is my faith. And all the fruit you talk about applies to me and this foundation.

But to say the security is just in a spiritual event, which may or may not have occurred, leads to false
ideas about sinful behaviour, judgement, safety and resolution of sin.

As with most things of God, a small change, and the implications are not of God.
The snake did not say God did not say they would not die, he just questioned was that the only outcome.

So security in being born again and not in the cross seems a small shift, yet its fruit is being an enemy of
the cross is ok, and those who walk with Jesus are the enemy. That is enough to know it is wrong.

When will you be honest with yourself

Your security is in your works, in your ability to remain in christ. In your ability to fight sin. Not in God

God said I am secure, He said I have eternal life, He said I am and will be preserved. He said I am his child. He said I will never be lost.

Stop trysting yourself and for once in your life put it all in Gods hands. You will be amazed at the freedom you have to glorify God in ways you never imagined.

 

[mailmandan]

They also can not see. It is not the people who preserve themselves, it is GOD who preserves them

Something baout the power of God to change people must scare them. Thats all I can think of why they keep ignoring the obvious

Those who do not understand God's power in preserving His saints forever are left with trying to preserves themselves.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

My point was that God's faithful one's/godly one's/saints are preserved forever. Of course these are not unbelievers and their sins have been washed in the blood of Christ. Who mentioned anything about universalism?

The whole body of theology, that locks sinners into heaven against their will, leads to the idea
that doing nothing for God is acceptable. And what has triggered this whole discussion is picking
people like myself who come with Gods great work in their lives to be told it does not exist.

And I am not alone, there are millions of people like me, and continually testify.
It is the fruit of this theology that causes this movement against Gods ways and Gods people.

But sins deceitfulness and arrogance will always end here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God makes us sai

What I find interesting, is this jump from sinner to saint is not a boundary people fear or think
this is a place we cannot go.

To call this boundary a false argument or straw man, overturns Gods judgement and justice.

It is God who makes us saints, we do not make ourselves saints

Again, Your faith is self is just outlandish. Why do you refuse to credit God with the work he has done, is doing and will do in his peoples lives?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those who do not understand God's power in preserving His saints forever are left with trying to preserves themselves.

Yep. And when you hear them talk. That is what comes out.. How they must change, They must grow. They must do this and that.

What you will hardly ever hear at all is how God does the work. No credit to God whatsoever.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

When will you be honest with yourself
Your security is in your works, in your ability to remain in christ. In your ability to fight sin. Not in God
God said I am secure, He said I have eternal life, He said I am and will be preserved. He said I am his child. He said I will never be lost.
Stop trysting yourself and for once in your life put it all in Gods hands. You will be amazed at the freedom you have to glorify God in ways you never imagined.

EG, I wish in a way I was like your projection so I could say yes you are right.
But I cannot deny what God has made me.

My security is in Christ and the cross, which is a reality that came to me in
real clarity back as a teenager. It changed my life, emotionally, my direction, my ambitions
my focus.

So I testify to what is within me.
It makes me understand why the cross is such a central symbol in Christian tradition, along
with identification with suffering and struggle.

And all the promises apply to me through the cross and His forgiveness.
You have a different perspective.

Paul preached
23 we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1 Cor 1:23-24

I have seen what lawless society does to people. Your position goes there, and embraces it like it is Gods
way.

The subtle difference is who do you listen to in your heart? Jesus and His words or the ideas of men?

 

[mailmandan]

When Paul says 'not of works', it is about 'not of the works of the law'. That is about circumcision.

Even though the Jews were focused heavily on circumcision in particular (Acts 15:1) the law is not merely limited to circumcision or ceremonial laws in general, but also includes the moral aspect of the law (Matthew 22:37-40). So "not saved by works" is not merely limited to ceremonial laws, but works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Exalting self ideas

Walking the ways of Christ are deemed as walking in self, because one is walking and not
letting God do everything.

Jesus calls us to walk and obey, so our walking is in response to Him and our change.

Unfortunately like all philosophies it can take prisoner the believer and change everything into
something else. So a sinner enslaved by sin is now a saint resisting satans accusations of sin.
A righteous saint walking in Gods ways is now a self righteous hypocrite earning their salvation.

Every problem that would undermine the outlook is changed until it makes a new faith and
new view. In this jaded cage one is entombed, because any words of God become something else.

But in the end sin is sin and we are responsible for our sin in our lives.
One can invalidate the word of God and be happy, but that does not make it true or Gods way.

Before the Lord there are no excuses, which is why we are here to share our hearts and to be
a witness, as all prophets are to people who should listen but choose not to.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, I wish in a way I was like your projection so I could say yes you are right.
But I cannot deny what God has made me.

My security is in Christ and the cross, which is a reality that came to me in
real clarity back as a teenager. It changed my life, emotionally, my direction, my ambitions
my focus.

So I testify to what is within me.
It makes me understand why the cross is such a central symbol in Christian tradition, along
with identification with suffering and struggle.

And all the promises apply to me through the cross and His forgiveness.
You have a different perspective.

Paul preached
23 we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1 Cor 1:23-24

I have seen what lawless society does to people. Your position goes there, and embraces it like it is Gods
way.

The subtle difference is who do you listen to in your heart? Jesus and His words or the ideas of men?

I wish you could be like me and hear yourself so you can understand what people on the outside see and hear you say

One the one hand, you profess it is God who saved you, and your security is in christ on the cross

On the other hand, you say your works are what is required. If you somehow fall back into sin, or do not work hard enough to grow in christ, Your security will be lost

These two are contradictory terms.. All we can do is pray one day you see this contradiction of your own words.

And your strawman about what we believe, Stop it, its not true, I am sick of you trying to tell people what true Grace believers believe and teach. Especially when you can not even live by your own belief by the words which you say.

 

[Hevosmies]

Your full of it pal....the only ones preaching against truth is You, Petey and Seoche....three peas in a pod back under new names.....all three of you deceived

Dont know who Petey and Seoche are, but here is a good nickname

The Dalton brothers!

Anyone remember those guys from the Lucky Luke comic books?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I wish you could be like me and hear yourself so you can understand what people on the outside see and hear you say
One the one hand, you profess it is God who saved you, and your security is in christ on the cross
On the other hand, you say your works are what is required. If you somehow fall back into sin, or do not work hard enough to grow in christ, Your security will be lost
These two are contradictory terms.. All we can do is pray one day you see this contradiction of your own words.
And your strawman about what we believe, Stop it, its not true, I am sick of you trying to tell people what true Grace believers believe and teach. Especially when you can not even live by your own belief by the words which you say.

Talking to you and others helps me understand Jesus more and the way.
Can a baby be an engineer able to build building or a doctor to help people who are ill?

So our intentions at the start are just that, it is the end that defines have we reached
the objective. If ones objective is slough, doing nothing and staying as one is,
then you have arrived.

If our intentions are to be like Jesus, this is a long walk my friend.
And does anyone say, no I do not want to be like Jesus?

But are they willing to pay the price? For most the answer is no.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Talking to you and others helps me understand Jesus more and the way.
Can a baby be an engineer able to build building or a doctor to help people who are ill?

So our intentions at the start are just that, it is the end that defines have we reached
the objective. If ones objective is slough, doing nothing and staying as one is,
then you have arrived.

If our intentions are to be like Jesus, this is a long walk my friend.
And does anyone say, no I do not want to be like Jesus?

But are they willing to pay the price? For most the answer is no.

See, this is exactly what I mean

No glory to God here, it is all about you and your work. Yet you CLAIM your security is in Christ?

Its like a person who I now have on ignore. Who keeps boasting he has a great testimony, If every word which ocmes out of yru mouth is you, what you have done, what you have to do. And not about christ. There is no testimony.

God lead jonah to ninevah, even when Jonah did not want to God. God had a plan for him and led him there, where he completed his work.

That is how God works in peoples lives. If you think Jonah could just resist God and keep trying to walk away. Well you are wrong. If he did, he would have physically died. (Also called the sin unto death) but you know what? He still woudl have been in heave, because he was Gods child.

Thats the point you people do not realise

God considered us his children, Even as a full grown adult. God sees us as children and he will cotninue to try to shape our lives until the day he calls us home.. Whether you believe it or not is beside the point

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Hi Eg,

Let me put it simply. I follow Jesus and listen to Him.
I share my walk and am told I am not a believer and do not know Jesus.

That is enough to know these people do not know Jesus.
Because all I share is Jesus, His way and His words.

Those who listen to Jesus and His way, His sheep listen.
This is the true spiritual reality. We see the world through our hearts,
and how they have been transformed or not by the Holy Spirit.

It is interesting to hear the reasons why people reject Jesus and His words,
and I am always willing to listen. But this is where my heart is, Praise God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Eg,

Let me put it simply. I follow Jesus and listen to Him.
I share my walk and am told I am not a believer and do not know Jesus.

That is enough to know these people do not know Jesus.
Because all I share is Jesus, His way and His words.

Those who listen to Jesus and His way, His sheep listen.
This is the true spiritual reality. We see the world through our hearts,
and how they have been transformed or not by the Holy Spirit.

It is interesting to hear the reasons why people reject Jesus and His words,
and I am always willing to listen. But this is where my heart is, Praise God.

See, It sounds here like you believe those who are Gods children WILL DO. And they LISTEN

But then if we pry further you will say they may not do, and they may fall, and they may be cast out

You can not even keep your story straight.

Again, I wish you could hear yourself from someone elses eyes so you can see what you are really doing.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Dont know who Petey and Seoche are, but here is a good nickname
The Dalton brothers!
Anyone remember those guys from the Lucky Luke comic books?

It is easy to become cynical and join the world, mocking and choosing its ways.
Is this where your heart lies?

Did Jesus take this road or another road? It is our choice between us and Him.
Seeing Pauls ministry many started well and got sidetracked.

God bless you, nothing is certain until you lay your heart into His hands.

 

[Hevosmies]

I got special revelation u guys. here it is:

[sarcasm] im saved, all of yous are lost. im obedient, all the rest of you are just disobedient. havent even repented of one sin LOL whats wrong with you guys? Me personally, i obey 100% of the time. i never sin, but im so humble that i admit i make mistakes sometimes. like when i flirted with that lady at the cash register one time. but that was just a mistake.
[/sarcasm]

 

[Hevosmies]

It is easy to become cynical and join the world, mocking and choosing its ways.
Is this where your heart lies?

Did Jesus take this road or another road? It is our choice between us and Him.
Seeing Pauls ministry many started well and got sidetracked.

God bless you, nothing is certain until you lay your heart into His hands.

What?

I already gave up on being serious here. Some of these guys like DistortingGodsTruth arent interested in truth, they are just here to play around so, i got no intention to take it serious.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

See, It sounds here like you believe those who are Gods children WILL DO. And they LISTEN
But then if we pry further you will say they may not do, and they may fall, and they may be cast out
You can not even keep your story straight.
Again, I wish you could hear yourself from someone elses eyes so you can see what you are really doing.

Hi EG,

You seem incapable of understanding. This is not an argument or really a discussion.
You are asking me about my faith in Christ. I share it, and yet you feel you have the ability
to show me where I am wrong. Are you Jesus? I listen to Him.

When you meet Jesus it is ones foundation. The truth is you want more than this and doubt
whether it is true in my life.

And that is enough to know who you are and your approach.
And saying I have a story that changes God help you.
Thank you Jesus for the cross, for your cleansing, for your walk, and for your way that you
call us to follow.

24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
Matt 7:24-25

When one has nothing but you call and follow and you gain everything, you know the wisdom
of Christ and His Kingdom. Thank you Jesus for your love that flows from our hearts like streams
of refreshing water, Amen

14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
Eph 4:14-15

I am guilty of making a mistake. Saying I recognise your endeavours and intention and theology,
and like all empathetic people would love to help you and not disappoint, you think this is an
encouragement rather than it is a total rejection, my friend, in the most loving way possible.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What?

I already gave up on being serious here. Some of these guys like DistortingGodsTruth arent interested in truth, they are just here to play around so, i got no intention to take it serious.

Ok, I understand, lol.