Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Repentance only happens because of conviction from the Lord.
Conviction is not a intellectual assent of understanding.
The reason we dwell on the Gods word in our hearts, so we know His heart and will
and walk in a way pleasing to Him. David put it like this
7 Let the assembled peoples gather around you. Rule over them from on high;
8 let the LORD judge the peoples. Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, according to my integrity, O Most High.
9 O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts, bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.
10 My shield is God Most High, who saves the upright in heart.
Psalm 7:7-10
9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.
10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands.
11 I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.
12 Praise be to you, O LORD; teach me your decrees.
13 With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth.
14 I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches.
15 I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways.
16 I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word.
Psalm 119:9-16
Conviction is not a intellectual assent of understanding.
The reason we dwell on the Gods word in our hearts, so we know His heart and will
and walk in a way pleasing to Him. David put it like this
7 Let the assembled peoples gather around you. Rule over them from on high;
8 let the LORD judge the peoples. Judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, according to my integrity, O Most High.
9 O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts, bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.
10 My shield is God Most High, who saves the upright in heart.
Psalm 7:7-10
9 How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.
10 I seek you with all my heart; do not let me stray from your commands.
11 I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.
12 Praise be to you, O LORD; teach me your decrees.
13 With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth.
14 I rejoice in following your statutes as one rejoices in great riches.
15 I meditate on your precepts and consider your ways.
16 I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word.
Psalm 119:9-16
Now I understand your outburst, and the apology.
So your logic is if someone shows you the way of Jesus, they are being arrogant.
Is it arrogant to suggest Christ sets us free and changes our hearts and reality?
If Jesus was in front of you would you beat Him to a pulp because His ways seem impossible?
Sounds like the flesh is speaking, and not starting to take the anger and bring it to the cross.
What we speak is what the heart is full of, whether we resolve it or not.
And if we claim to be so humble yet to the Lords word we rise in rebellion something is missing.
I am glad I am on the internet, and these are just words.
Our calling is to walk in His ways, which will show by the fruit of the Spirit
22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23
We walk this way because of what He has done in us through the cross.
Thank you Jesus. God bless you.
So your logic is if someone shows you the way of Jesus, they are being arrogant.
Is it arrogant to suggest Christ sets us free and changes our hearts and reality?
If Jesus was in front of you would you beat Him to a pulp because His ways seem impossible?
Sounds like the flesh is speaking, and not starting to take the anger and bring it to the cross.
What we speak is what the heart is full of, whether we resolve it or not.
And if we claim to be so humble yet to the Lords word we rise in rebellion something is missing.
I am glad I am on the internet, and these are just words.
Our calling is to walk in His ways, which will show by the fruit of the Spirit
22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23
We walk this way because of what He has done in us through the cross.
Thank you Jesus. God bless you.
Here is an interesting tension in the Lords relationship with His people.
Grace. Sin is rebellion, but we are learning, stumble, fall and often get up and resolve it.
When do we really repent and when is it just a sop to guilt?
Time tells. And it is this fighting through in our hearts that makes a difference.
One brother I know was walking well when an incident threw him sideways for almost a year.
It took him that long to repent and sort himself out.
His heart intent had not changed, but one issue became dominant, and blocked everything else.
But in the end he came to see his relationship with God had died, and he needed to repent,
which he did, and his relationship with the Lord was restored.
I do not start about losing faith or not, because these issues are often life dilemmas which involve
deep emotional trauma and take time. I just want to acknowledge if we know Jesus we want to
follow and find the way. It is a true reflection of who we are and where we are going.
Grace. Sin is rebellion, but we are learning, stumble, fall and often get up and resolve it.
When do we really repent and when is it just a sop to guilt?
Time tells. And it is this fighting through in our hearts that makes a difference.
One brother I know was walking well when an incident threw him sideways for almost a year.
It took him that long to repent and sort himself out.
His heart intent had not changed, but one issue became dominant, and blocked everything else.
But in the end he came to see his relationship with God had died, and he needed to repent,
which he did, and his relationship with the Lord was restored.
I do not start about losing faith or not, because these issues are often life dilemmas which involve
deep emotional trauma and take time. I just want to acknowledge if we know Jesus we want to
follow and find the way. It is a true reflection of who we are and where we are going.
^ I'm just asking if you believe EACH of these is "possible" for a Christian [or, in your words, "His people" (an individual believer/saint)]? I'm not clear on your actual answer, sorry.
At any given moment, can an individual Christian/believer/saint be either "walking in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']"?
At any given moment, can an individual Christian/believer/saint be either "walking in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']"?
I would interpret Paul is warning believers if they sow to the flesh or evil desires they will die.
It is unclear whether he means they never knew Jesus, or they have fallen away.
The believers I have known who have sown to evil desires did not know Jesus but were religious.
It is obvious to me, if the standard is to be Holy in ones life, then to be impure, doing the opposite
denies the faith one claims to carry. And grace will apply to a degree, but at what point does
the seed in someones heart die, or never takes proper root?
Jesus talks about counting the cost, our life for a life with Him. Not many buy into this or even
understand it.
It is unclear whether he means they never knew Jesus, or they have fallen away.
The believers I have known who have sown to evil desires did not know Jesus but were religious.
It is obvious to me, if the standard is to be Holy in ones life, then to be impure, doing the opposite
denies the faith one claims to carry. And grace will apply to a degree, but at what point does
the seed in someones heart die, or never takes proper root?
Jesus talks about counting the cost, our life for a life with Him. Not many buy into this or even
understand it.
Why are you calling "the believers" the same as "did not know Jesus but were religious"? 
I am using the word "believers" the same way I am using the words "Christians/saints" [what you called "His people"] and that is who I am asking about (not the unbelieving/unbelievers or those who "do not know Jesus"). Is it "possible" for a "Christian/believer/saint" to do EACH [of the underlined things: "walk in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']" at any given moment (not "at the same moment")??] Will a believer always and only ever "walk in the Spirit," or might they sometimes exert/walk in the flesh ["quench the Spirit" or "grieve the Spirit"]? Is that "possible" for the believer/Christian/saint? (or, relatedly, is the result an immediate "loss of salvation," in your view?)
I am using the word "believers" the same way I am using the words "Christians/saints" [what you called "His people"] and that is who I am asking about (not the unbelieving/unbelievers or those who "do not know Jesus"). Is it "possible" for a "Christian/believer/saint" to do EACH [of the underlined things: "walk in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']" at any given moment (not "at the same moment")??] Will a believer always and only ever "walk in the Spirit," or might they sometimes exert/walk in the flesh ["quench the Spirit" or "grieve the Spirit"]? Is that "possible" for the believer/Christian/saint? (or, relatedly, is the result an immediate "loss of salvation," in your view?)
Why are you calling "the believers" the same as "did not know Jesus but were religious"?
I am using the word "believers" the same way I am using the words "Christians/saints" [what you called "His people"] and that is who I am asking about (not the unbelieving/unbelievers or those who "do not know Jesus"). Is it "possible" for a "Christian/believer/saint" to do EACH [of the underlined things: "walk in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']" at any given moment (not "at the same moment")??] Will a believer always and only ever "walk in the Spirit," or might they sometimes exert/walk in the flesh ["quench the Spirit" or "grieve the Spirit"]? Is that "possible" for the believer/Christian/saint? (or, relatedly, is the result an immediate "loss of salvation," in your view?)
I am using the word "believers" the same way I am using the words "Christians/saints" [what you called "His people"] and that is who I am asking about (not the unbelieving/unbelievers or those who "do not know Jesus"). Is it "possible" for a "Christian/believer/saint" to do EACH [of the underlined things: "walk in the Spirit" or "in the flesh ['fulfill the lust of the flesh']" at any given moment (not "at the same moment")??] Will a believer always and only ever "walk in the Spirit," or might they sometimes exert/walk in the flesh ["quench the Spirit" or "grieve the Spirit"]? Is that "possible" for the believer/Christian/saint? (or, relatedly, is the result an immediate "loss of salvation," in your view?)
I do know about love, life, Jesus, the cross and our walk.
I do not judge people, and their walk is their own.
What I do know is how an uncleansed heart makes people like thorns and thistles, have sudden
outbursts, who desire things are forced or made one way and not another.
Who we are and how we speak from our hearts, and whether we dwell in love or something else
is what matters. For some their focus is on the camp of the saved and protecting them, and using
labels as an excuse for abuse. All I know is things are never as they seem, and getting alongside
others gives us an opportunity to encourage, minister and serve.
So if you knew the Lord would you sow to things that lead to Gods judgement or to things of life
and eternity? And why would one sow to death and destruction?