Not By Works

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FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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you are not " in Christ " if you do not accept the gift of salvation.
you seem to think, based on your silly , man-made church statement of faith, that when you believe in Christ, you get forgiveness, then when you " walk just as he walked " or " fully repent of sin ", you get salvation.
total lie. anti-Biblical garbage.
and, my stance on sin is NOT a " view ", it is accepting that sin is missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so.
so, by DEFINITION, if you fall short of the standards God laid out, then you are a sinner.
that is not a " view " or" concept ' , it is a FACT which, in order to prop up your " I don't sin " delusion, you deny.
Hi gb9,
You do not like the Nazarene church and weslyan or Holiness movement theology.
Neither of us can in a few notes talk about such a divide in outlook.

Your language is just saying a simple idea. We are failures with or without Jesus, cleansed or
uncleansed, filled with the Holy Spirit or not. Just obtain the free pass and wait.

I respect you sincerely believe this, thank you for your contribution.
Put simply scripture and Gods ways would be much simpler and brutal if this was true.

I have repeated this point many times, and you like your conclusions. So God bless you,
thank you for your contributions.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
?? Are you saying sin does matter regarding salvation? Are you meaning only before salvation, but not after (as that is what I understand from my many OSAS friends, which to me means sin does not matter). If yes, are you meaning that a saved person who later sins and does not repent does not become lost, just like every other sinner that does not repent, is lost?
Where in the bible does it say the penalty of any particular sin is to repent?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I don't see how this answers the question of the poster you mentioned in regards to his sins, so "us" his sin. Or is his sin is that he does not agree with you?
There is a basic discussion over weeks on going about the nature of sin and two different
theological positions, where I take the traditional Holiness movement view towards sin,
and they take the Free Grace theology view.

With this background if you read up about these positions some of the language may become
clearer.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don't see how this answers the question of the poster you mentioned in regards to his sins, so "us" his sin. Or is his sin is that he does not agree with you?
He does not get it

He also does not understand the defenition of sin, So until he does, you will never be able to help him understand what it means.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sin does not cause a loss of salvation, what it will bring about is a "chastising", loss of peace and suffering,

Heb 12:7-8 (Endure your suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline?

Endure your suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline?)
Amen

They seem to think if you sin, A loving father kicks you out of his family UNTIL you repent.

What loving father does that?
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
Dude, Your a liar and bearer of false witness. Your sitting here lieing about what people believe and bearing false witness against them, while saying that sin matters

So what is it. Their sin matters but your free to sin however you want? How dare you get off as a holier than though pharisee who refuses to admit his own sin.




Yet here you are denying your own sin. How do they exuse the sin they deny? How did the pharisee excuse their sin they kept denying, when when Jesus called them out. And you have to really ask?

What kind of works do you think people live in that they are free to think you or they are something you are not

The penalty of sin is death, ALL SIN, not just this persons sin, or particular sins you think are grievous. God is not a respecter of persons not is he respecter of one sin over another sin. If you comit a sin, ANY SIN, by defenition you should die on that spot and be cast to outer darkness for all eternity. Which means YOU my friend, are just as guilty as every man woman and child you come into contact with or talk to online or meet on the internet. Yet if we claim it, We excuse our sin,, But you thin k because you DENY it you are ok?

Your not ok my friend, Your denying the very grace being offered to you and expecting God to accpet your self righteousness, which my friend, God said he will not recieve it, he will deny even knowing you if you think you an come to him praising all your great works on judgment day. And he will tall you to depart. You better wise up!



Again, YOUR A LIAR, Just like Peter and all the other people who have come before you and continue to spread this LIE about others, You are mistaken!!

Your BEARING FALSE WITNESS against a WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE who you do not even know

Do some people think that just because they said some prayer they can sin all they want? Yes, No one here denies that. Jude called them out as people whose condemnation was already set in stone. James called them decieved people who think they have faith but never had it. John called them people who NEVER knew God because a child of God CAN NOT continue to live in sin

But most of the people who believe in OSAS (in fact everyone I know who believes in eternal security based on Gods promise not our good works) realise sin comes at a price, it is not left unpunished, and people suffer greatly (look at king david running for his life because of his sin) so yoru wrong, and a liar and a sinner by your own words

These people ALSO, because of Gods faithfulness in his word) WANT to walk worthy of him, WANT to continue to run the race. WANT to come to God as an abba faither, not the spirit of fear as you preach. And want to continue to run the race so they can produce fruit of bringing others to christ, and helping other brohters and sisters overcome their weaknesses and struggles as they are helped.

Instead of judging things you DO NOT KNOW. Why do you not for once in your life see what you are saying, and earn what others actually believe, and stop listing to men who have led you astray.

I am so sick of people saying that people who love God and who understand the REALITY of their situation and their own personal sin issues with God are people who LOVE SIN and think it is ok to go around sinning all they want.


Sadly, Like the jews who made these extra laws THINKING they would actually be LESS tmepted to commit the sins that got them in trouble to begin with, we have so many in churches today think we need to do just as they do. That out of fear for being licentious. We have to do 180 and become legalist, and make sure there is no chance we become licentious.

Well news flash. Legalists are just as false teachers as licentious people are. The difference is they think grace people are legalists, while legalists like you think we are licentious

YOUR BOTH WRONG.

Wow, relax..I was answering questions you asked. The whole point is that there is no salvation in sin...its from sin. Jesus said, and the bible is full of the same all over the place: "If you love me keep my commandments". OSAS denies that a grace saved Christian can REALLY be an overcomer, REALLY have victory over sin, etc. and OSAS says, regarding salvation, sin does not matter once your saved as sin has no negative effect on your saved position. All that is a lie of satan.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
WOW........ talk about taking the "Good" right out of the "Good News" by some........... how God must be grieved .... :cry:

That Christ Jesus who did soooo much, at such a tremendous cost such that many state He was actually sweating blood in the garden of Gethsemane.... and people can be so bold to add their filthy rags to His work

Paul a Jew ....he knew the "Good News" defending it with every bone in his body.... and we who were not under the law cannot figure it out.

Philippians 1:7 So it is right that I should feel as I do about all of you, for you have a special place in my heart. You share with me the special favor of God, both in my imprisonment and in defending and confirming the truth of the Good News.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Where in the bible does it say the penalty of any particular sin is to repent?
4 if a person thoughtlessly takes an oath to do anything, whether good or evil-in any matter one might carelessly swear about-even though he is unaware of it, in any case when he learns of it he will be guilty.
5 "'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned
6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.
Lev 5:4-6

The above verse is repentance for the guilt the believer has before the Lord
by confessing the sin specifically and offering a sacrifice for this sin.

EG will not see this response as in theory I am on his ignore list:)
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
That is not what you stated.

You said we assert sin does not matter

Every once saved always saved person I have spoken with in person regarding the subject of OSAS has clearly stated that once they are saved, no sin, no amount of sinning, can unsave them. Were they all wrong?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Wow, relax..I was answering questions you asked. The whole point is that there is no salvation in sin...its from sin. Jesus said, and the bible is full of the same all over the place: "If you love me keep my commandments". OSAS denies that a grace saved Christian can REALLY be an overcomer, REALLY have victory over sin, etc. and OSAS says, regarding salvation, sin does not matter once your saved as sin has no negative effect on your saved position. All that is a lie of satan.

Wow, you have no idea how high you have to reach to be in the likeness of Christ even for a millisecond.

A low, low view of Christ..... imho
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Wow, relax..I was answering questions you asked. The whole point is that there is no salvation in sin...its from sin. Jesus said, and the bible is full of the same all over the place: "If you love me keep my commandments". OSAS denies that a grace saved Christian can REALLY be an overcomer, REALLY have victory over sin, etc. and OSAS says, regarding salvation, sin does not matter once your saved as sin has no negative effect on your saved position. All that is a lie of satan.
It is not suprising that those who condemn believers as following satan, often claim
the evil they are doing is not from scripture when these very people quote scripture
which encourages the very behaviour they are saying is evil.

And the whole process of condemnation is satans work they will say, will doing it
themselves. Now that has to be the biggest joke of all, claiming you have spotted
the enemy and then doing his work for him......... I think some people are very
confused and cannot see friend from foe ........ friendly fire it is called in the army.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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the only necessary condition for salvation is faith and trust in Christ.

fruit bearing is a result of salvation, not a cause or proof.

if you want external proof of salvation, that make you a fruit inspector.
Please provide post number where I asked anyone for external proof. I said that I don't inspect anyone's fruit but my own. God determines what is good fruit and bad fruit, for He knows the heart, the motives and intentions. THat is why the "good works by Moslems, Budhists, etc" fail, because good works are not necessarily good fruit. The motive and intent have to be good as well as the action. See the first verses of Matthew chapter six.

I do not inspect anyone's fruit but my own. I never asked ANYONE for external proof of their salvation. You are a false accuser.
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
Where in the bible does it say the penalty of any particular sin is to repent?
Am I really that confusing? The penalty of sin is eternal death. I never said the penalty is repent and you know that. When John the Baptist came preaching he said repent. At Pentecost, in response to peters preaching, the people asked, what should we do? and peter answered repent, believe the gospel, etc. repentance is a response to seeing what sin is really about (THE CROSS)
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
It is not suprising that those who condemn believers as following satan, often claim
the evil they are doing is not from scripture when these very people quote scripture
which encourages the very behaviour they are saying is evil.

And the whole process of condemnation is satans work they will say, will doing it
themselves. Now that has to be the biggest joke of all, claiming you have spotted
the enemy and then doing his work for him......... I think some people are very
confused and cannot see friend from foe ........ friendly fire it is called in the army.

Thanks :)
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
I think is back loading works onto the Gospel then?
It would be if I said any of those things. Let's see if GB9 can provide a post number where I did. I already asked him to do so. I predict the results will be the same as when I asked you for the same thing. Nil, nada, zilch documentation that I said ANYTHING that people are accusing me of saying. This ploy of misrepresenting someone is usually used by atheists and antitheists against believers. It's really sad to see it practiced by Christians against other Christians.

You people are supposed to be following the One who calls Himself the Truth, but you have no problem being careless with the truth
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Wow, you have no idea how high you have to reach to be in the likeness of Christ even for a millisecond.

A low, low view of Christ..... imho
This argument that Jesus is so impossibly high is so weak when Paul followed Jesus's
example and we are to follow Pauls.

I have quoted this verse so many times, are they literally deaf and blind to Gods word
and Pauls heart. I can only imagine so.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:1

It reminds me of the high church people who have an altar and the wine and bread
kept specially holy because this is unimaginably unattainable.

But then having the Holy Spirit in our hearts and us being the Holy Temple of God
sounds like it is unobtainable for some believers as well, which means they do not
have the Holy Spirit and are therefore not saved.

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Romans 8:9

16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Dude, Your a liar and bearer of false witness. Your sitting here lieing about what people believe and bearing false witness against them, while saying that sin matters

So what is it. Their sin matters but your free to sin however you want? How dare you get off as a holier than though pharisee who refuses to admit his own sin.




Yet here you are denying your own sin. How do they exuse the sin they deny? How did the pharisee excuse their sin they kept denying, when when Jesus called them out. And you have to really ask?

What kind of works do you think people live in that they are free to think you or they are something you are not

The penalty of sin is death, ALL SIN, not just this persons sin, or particular sins you think are grievous. God is not a respecter of persons not is he respecter of one sin over another sin. If you comit a sin, ANY SIN, by defenition you should die on that spot and be cast to outer darkness for all eternity. Which means YOU my friend, are just as guilty as every man woman and child you come into contact with or talk to online or meet on the internet. Yet if we claim it, We excuse our sin,, But you thin k because you DENY it you are ok?

Your not ok my friend, Your denying the very grace being offered to you and expecting God to accpet your self righteousness, which my friend, God said he will not recieve it, he will deny even knowing you if you think you an come to him praising all your great works on judgment day. And he will tall you to depart. You better wise up!



Again, YOUR A LIAR, Just like Peter and all the other people who have come before you and continue to spread this LIE about others, You are mistaken!!

Your BEARING FALSE WITNESS against a WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE who you do not even know

Do some people think that just because they said some prayer they can sin all they want? Yes, No one here denies that. Jude called them out as people whose condemnation was already set in stone. James called them decieved people who think they have faith but never had it. John called them people who NEVER knew God because a child of God CAN NOT continue to live in sin

But most of the people who believe in OSAS (in fact everyone I know who believes in eternal security based on Gods promise not our good works) realise sin comes at a price, it is not left unpunished, and people suffer greatly (look at king david running for his life because of his sin) so yoru wrong, and a liar and a sinner by your own words

These people ALSO, because of Gods faithfulness in his word) WANT to walk worthy of him, WANT to continue to run the race. WANT to come to God as an abba faither, not the spirit of fear as you preach. And want to continue to run the race so they can produce fruit of bringing others to christ, and helping other brohters and sisters overcome their weaknesses and struggles as they are helped.

Instead of judging things you DO NOT KNOW. Why do you not for once in your life see what you are saying, and earn what others actually believe, and stop listing to men who have led you astray.

I am so sick of people saying that people who love God and who understand the REALITY of their situation and their own personal sin issues with God are people who LOVE SIN and think it is ok to go around sinning all they want.


Sadly, Like the jews who made these extra laws THINKING they would actually be LESS tmepted to commit the sins that got them in trouble to begin with, we have so many in churches today think we need to do just as they do. That out of fear for being licentious. We have to do 180 and become legalist, and make sure there is no chance we become licentious.

Well news flash. Legalists are just as false teachers as licentious people are. The difference is they think grace people are legalists, while legalists like you think we are licentious

YOUR BOTH WRONG.
Nowhere does he deny that he has sin. More false accusations from the false accusation club.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Dude, Your a liar and bearer of false witness. Your sitting here lieing about what people believe and bearing false witness against them, while saying that sin matters

So what is it. Their sin matters but your free to sin however you want? How dare you get off as a holier than though pharisee who refuses to admit his own sin.




Yet here you are denying your own sin. How do they exuse the sin they deny? How did the pharisee excuse their sin they kept denying, when when Jesus called them out. And you have to really ask?

What kind of works do you think people live in that they are free to think you or they are something you are not

The penalty of sin is death, ALL SIN, not just this persons sin, or particular sins you think are grievous. God is not a respecter of persons not is he respecter of one sin over another sin. If you comit a sin, ANY SIN, by defenition you should die on that spot and be cast to outer darkness for all eternity. Which means YOU my friend, are just as guilty as every man woman and child you come into contact with or talk to online or meet on the internet. Yet if we claim it, We excuse our sin,, But you thin k because you DENY it you are ok?

Your not ok my friend, Your denying the very grace being offered to you and expecting God to accpet your self righteousness, which my friend, God said he will not recieve it, he will deny even knowing you if you think you an come to him praising all your great works on judgment day. And he will tall you to depart. You better wise up!



Again, YOUR A LIAR, Just like Peter and all the other people who have come before you and continue to spread this LIE about others, You are mistaken!!

Your BEARING FALSE WITNESS against a WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE who you do not even know

Do some people think that just because they said some prayer they can sin all they want? Yes, No one here denies that. Jude called them out as people whose condemnation was already set in stone. James called them decieved people who think they have faith but never had it. John called them people who NEVER knew God because a child of God CAN NOT continue to live in sin

But most of the people who believe in OSAS (in fact everyone I know who believes in eternal security based on Gods promise not our good works) realise sin comes at a price, it is not left unpunished, and people suffer greatly (look at king david running for his life because of his sin) so yoru wrong, and a liar and a sinner by your own words

These people ALSO, because of Gods faithfulness in his word) WANT to walk worthy of him, WANT to continue to run the race. WANT to come to God as an abba faither, not the spirit of fear as you preach. And want to continue to run the race so they can produce fruit of bringing others to christ, and helping other brohters and sisters overcome their weaknesses and struggles as they are helped.

Instead of judging things you DO NOT KNOW. Why do you not for once in your life see what you are saying, and earn what others actually believe, and stop listing to men who have led you astray.

I am so sick of people saying that people who love God and who understand the REALITY of their situation and their own personal sin issues with God are people who LOVE SIN and think it is ok to go around sinning all they want.


Sadly, Like the jews who made these extra laws THINKING they would actually be LESS tmepted to commit the sins that got them in trouble to begin with, we have so many in churches today think we need to do just as they do. That out of fear for being licentious. We have to do 180 and become legalist, and make sure there is no chance we become licentious.

Well news flash. Legalists are just as false teachers as licentious people are. The difference is they think grace people are legalists, while legalists like you think we are licentious

YOUR BOTH WRONG.
NOwhere does he deny that he has sin. IN fact, he says the opposite more than once. I see the problem. You people are either not reading the posts or you are not comprehending the words.

Man, I hope you people aren't trying to be apologists. You would be eaten alive
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
It would be if I said any of those things. Let's see if GB9 can provide a post number where I did. I already asked him to do so. I predict the results will be the same as when I asked you for the same thing. Nil, nada, zilch documentation that I said ANYTHING that people are accusing me of saying. This ploy of misrepresenting someone is usually used by atheists and antitheists against believers. It's really sad to see it practiced by Christians against other Christians.

You people are supposed to be following the One who calls Himself the Truth, but you have no problem being careless with the truth
I think there is a big assumption being made here.
What believer would condemn another believer for following Gods word?

I say this simply because we know we stand before the Lord for each word we utter,
and to judge a fellow believer is to risk judgement oneself.

But this particular group consider the "evil" doers worse than sinners, and deal with
them once identified with no grace or regard but true emnity.

The basis of this emnity is simply saying we can obey Jesus. It is not even saying
we are obeying Jesus fully, just even suggesting it is possible. I was truly hurt and shocked
when I first came accross this, but now I know the sheeps clothing and the thorns and
thistles inside. God bless you.

The other odd thing is not these people want peace, they want destruction and wiping out,
and talk of elimination not witnessing and loving sharing of experiences in Christ and the Lord.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
NOwhere does he deny that he has sin. IN fact, he says the opposite more than once. I see the problem. You people are either not reading the posts or you are not comprehending the words.

Man, I hope you people aren't trying to be apologists. You would be eaten alive
Their targets are other believers and they want to turn them on emotional hypocrisy,
and see everyone in these terms.