Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
Just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. And not of works lest any man should boast.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,128
4,133
113
yes if yu see what i said about it too.
but if God maintains it then what of our free will, are we calvinists?
I AM SO GLAD that I refuse to be called an Armenian or a Calvinists. The ARGUMENT between the TWO is STUPID.

HOW STUPID can both sides in their dumb argument get ? ? ?

Let me show you all.


We serve a GOD that is ALL KNOWING, and declares The End from the Beginning. His Omnipresence, not ONLY means every square inch of the Universe all at the same time, BUT ALSO INCLUDES EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. GOD DOES NOT FIT IN A BOX THAT WE CALL TIME. HE IS NOT A CREATED BEING, TRAVELING THROUGH TIME, HE IS THE CREATOR OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT. Now wrap your head around that truth about the characteristic of GOD, and you will realize that GOD is much bigger than you originally imagined, and both the Calvinist and the Armenian theories are equally WRONG.

HE IS OMNIPRESENT at EVERY FREE DECISION YOU WILL EVER MAKE, and because You limit YOUR THINKING to a finite mentality, your theories about Predestination have got to be equally wrong.

HOW on earth do you think HE WROTE EVERYONE'S NAME IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE EARTH WAS FORMED.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Revelation 17:8 (HCSB)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction. Those who live on the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and will be present ⌊again⌋.

Revelation 13:8-9 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
9 If anyone has an ear, he should listen:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,199
10,332
113
Isaiah 26:12
LORD, Thou wilt ordain peace for us: for Thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
Was wondering if the workers for, Cainologists, salvation losers, religionists and sinless perfectionist Pharisees have done enough to earn or keep their "supposed" salvation last night or today?

Answer----->Nope.....never have, never will......

Faith plus works to gain, keep, embellish, top off salvation = false gospel with no power to save-->Galatians 1, 3

Faith without works is what saves ----> Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:5, John 3:16, Romans 4:5, Romans 3:28

Do not fall for the religious Venus fly trap or dogma that peddles the following...

a. Salvation must be earned or maintained by man's effort
b. Salvation can be lost because of sin <---Where sin abound grace abounds the more
c. Salvation is based upon religious deeds, works, sacraments or any other give the dog a bone theology
d. Jesus needs our help to keep us saved

The simplicity that is found in JESUS is......It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Salvation is NOT losable.....

a. Saved to the uttermost seeing JESUS ever lives to intercede for us
b. Kept by the power of God through faith
c. Christ begins, finishes and completes the work of faith found in "b"
d. The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable (Salvation is one such gift John 3:16)
e. We are sealed by GOD unto the day of redemption
f. We are born of incorruptible SEED <---BEYOND the ability to be corrupted
g. We are given ETERNAL/EVERLASTING life NOT conditional or temporary life
h. Jesus will LOSE nothing, but raise it up the LAST DAY
i. JESUS will leave the 99 to find the one that wanders
j. God will WHIP (chasten) his children, but not cast away
k. Jesus will NEVER leave us or FORSAKE US
l. JESUS abides faithful to the promises above and below even if we do not remain faithful
m. EVEN if our works are burnt to a crisp we are still saved yet so as by fire
n. We are in both the Father's hand and the hand of Christ and NO man can remove us
o. Nothing can separate us from the love of GOD
p. Our spirit is spiritually born again from above and does not sin (See 1st John)
q. ETC.

ETC......TRUST JESUS by faith...........HE saves eternally!!!!!
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Repentance

Paul is quite simple about repentance
"I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." Act 26:20

For those who want to know what repent means look into the history of Israel, the old testament
and Hebrew

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html


Four Steps of Repentance Teshuvah:

1 Forsake the sin (Prov. 28:13). "Sincere repentance is demonstrated when the same temptation to sin, under the same conditions, is resolutely resisted" (Talmud Yoma 86b). Note that according to traditional Jewish views, the atonement is of no avail without repentance (Midrash Sifra). [shuv/strepho]

2 Regret the breach in your relationship with God and others (Psalm 51). [nacham/metanoia]

3 Confess the truth and make amends with those we have harmed (Prov. 28:13; 1 John 1:9; James 5:16, Matt. 5:23-4). Note that we must ask for mechilah (forgiveness from others) before receiving selichah (forgiveness from God). [shuv/strepho]

4 Accept your forgiveness and move forward with the LORD through faith (Phil. 3:13-14; 1 John 1:9). Be comforted by the Presence of the LORD in your life: Nachumu: "Comfort ye my people" (Isa. 40:1). [nacham/metanoia].

Finally, it needs to be said that authentic repentance is a lifestyle, not a "one time deal." We never get past it. Although there is certainly spiritual progress as we walk in grace, all genuine progress comes through ongoing teshuvah. We may repent from a certain action at a given point in time, but that does not mean that no longer need to do teshuvah. Teshuvah is perpetual and timeless, since it corresponds to our spiritual rather than our temporal lives (i.e., chayei olam rather than chayei sha'ah). Indeed, a true penitent is called baal teshuvah , a "master of returning," who is always turning away from self and toward God. We never get beyond the call to "repent and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). That is why the season of teshuvah is always timely. The message of Elul and the High Holidays is meant to be carried over throughout the rest of the year.

Many heretical teachers call repentance nothing to do with sin or turning to God and walking

in His ways, but they are simply wrong and founding their whole theology on a miss understanding

of the greek word metanoia

In the case of metanoia μετάνοια Bauer, BAGD says the following:

"repentance, turning about, conversion" as a turning away, (from sin). Also the positive aspects of repentance as turning towards God.

"For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death." 2 Cor. 7:10

It is not just changing your approach in your mind.
Jesus tells it like this

"I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:22

Who is Jesus calling to come to repentance?
Sinners! Because sinners are the ones who are called!
Paul is clear that repentance involved grief.

"As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us." 2 Cor. 7:9

And who is this repentance towards? Paul is clear that repentance has to do with God!

"how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you in public and from house to house,21 testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21-21
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26:20

You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2:22

Love does no harm to its neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law.
Rom 13:10

To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 Cor 9:21

Faith is only real when action is done as a result.
Faith without action is just thought faith, nothing more.

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Romans 10:9-10

'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
Matt 22:37

Love of God captivates everything that we are in Christ, to have this without it outworking
it is not real.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
actions we are called to do

put on love col 3:14
put off your old self Eph 4:22
each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 1 Corinthians 3:8
Persevere in them 1 im 4:16
make every effort 2 Peter 1:5
I press on Phil 3:12
puts them into practice Matt 7:24
we obey his commands 1 John 3:22
obey the commandments Matt 19:17
obey what I command John 14:15
Listen to him Matt 17:5
will teach you all things John 14:26
all to put their religion into practice 1 Tim 5:4
one who sows to please Gal 6:8
doing good Gal 6:9
Live such good lives 1 Peter 2:12
Submit yourselves 1 Peter 2:12
Humble yourselves James 4:10
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
Hilarious.........the whole order of the above is skewed....and then he gets an award badge HAHAHHAH WOW...........
 

GHClarkII

Active member
Mar 20, 2019
150
35
28
Salvation has never been a free gift.
Jesus calls us to give up our lives in the world for a life in Him.

Jesus made the gate and path possible. That is the gift, but the
cost is everything we are.

It is really this simple and Jesus declares it in these terms.

24 If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.
26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Matthew 16:24-27

Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:33

You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4

6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Romans 8:6-9

It is such an exaguration that today so many preach lawlessness for a gospel of
obedience and walking in love, having ones heart filled with Christ and His will.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Eph 2:8. That refers to the entire proceeding passage in the Greek. Paul says grace, salvation, and faith are all gifts of God. None of them are works. None are earned. That is what scripture teaches.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and THAT not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Eph 2:8. That refers to the entire proceeding passage in the Greek. Paul says grace, salvation, and faith are all gifts of God. None of them are works. None are earned. That is what scripture teaches.
AMEN............clear as hey?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,823
4,588
113
actions we are called to do

put on love col 3:14
put off your old self Eph 4:22
each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 1 Corinthians 3:8
Persevere in them 1 im 4:16
make every effort 2 Peter 1:5
I press on Phil 3:12
puts them into practice Matt 7:24
we obey his commands 1 John 3:22
obey the commandments Matt 19:17
obey what I command John 14:15
Listen to him Matt 17:5
will teach you all things John 14:26
all to put their religion into practice 1 Tim 5:4
one who sows to please Gal 6:8
doing good Gal 6:9
Live such good lives 1 Peter 2:12
Submit yourselves 1 Peter 2:12
Humble yourselves James 4:10
actions you need to do- accept the Biblical definition of sin, so then you can properly access if you are doing the things we are supposed to do and not doing the things we are not supposed to do.

sin is way beyond " breaking a command"....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
actions you need to do- accept the Biblical definition of sin, so then you can properly access if you are doing the things we are supposed to do and not doing the things we are not supposed to do.

sin is way beyond " breaking a command"....
Did you notice the skewed order............but hey...like you said, when one denies the very definition of words....
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,953
16,590
113
actions you need to do- accept the Biblical definition of sin, so then you can properly access if you are doing the things we are supposed to do and not doing the things we are not supposed to do.

sin is way beyond " breaking a command"....
Ah, must be Petey and his long winded rambles :rolleyes:
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
actions you need to do- accept the Biblical definition of sin, so then you can properly access if you are doing the things we are supposed to do and not doing the things we are not supposed to do.
sin is way beyond " breaking a command"....
actions we are called to do
put on love col 3:14
put off your old self Eph 4:22
each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 1 Corinthians 3:8
Persevere in them 1 im 4:16
make every effort 2 Peter 1:5
I press on Phil 3:12
puts them into practice Matt 7:24
we obey his commands 1 John 3:22
obey the commandments Matt 19:17
obey what I command John 14:15
Listen to him Matt 17:5
will teach you all things John 14:26
all to put their religion into practice 1 Tim 5:4
one who sows to please Gal 6:8
doing good Gal 6:9
Live such good lives 1 Peter 2:12
Submit yourselves 1 Peter 2:12
Humble yourselves James 4:10
Strange. I listed verses, have not made comments on them.
Some continually say we must not add to scripture, yet these comments are adding to
scripture. Putting it into context, Jonah and preaching to Nineveh is not enough,
repentance biblically defined is not enough.

So you see the truth. At one moment hyper legalism, then total lawlessness.

John describes things clearly

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
3 righteous behaviours
1. Faith righteousness
2. Heart righteousness
3. Action righteousness

We are saved by faith, which cleanses and purifies our heart which is shown in our behaviour.

8 Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4

1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that
contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 cor 7

3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
1 John 3

8 "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith
we are proclaiming:
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God
raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10

17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly
obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted.
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness
Rom 6

10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from
evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their
prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
1 Peter 3

11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what
is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.
3 John 1