Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
The works were PREPARED for us before the casting down of the earth, right?

...and we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED in Christ Jesus unto GOOD WORKS

Just an aside unrelated question...do you hold the preposition "en" in the second quote to be locative or dative?
Christ being the Noun in the clause would govern the case of the preposition "in" (en). Christ is in the Greek Dative case. Please notice how the Dative case is understood below. Couple that with how we understand the Locative case in English. Do you see any similarities?

N-DSM
Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in", "at"; instrument, "with")
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,199
113
The Good works were prepared IN CHRIST......WE as living sacrifices are being used by GOD with CHRIST through us is DOING the work.......that is what MOST do not UNDERSTAND and or GRASP......and EXACTLY why JESUS gets ALL the glory and why WE are told NOT to glory......WE are ONLY SERVANTS and LIVING sacrifices......---------CHRIST through US....a USABLE VESSEL........

Unto is not given by the preposition "ἐν"

en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.

The Dative aspect is given in....

Christ JESUS <---Dative Masculine Singular
Good works <----Both Dative Neutral Plural
Which <---Dative Neutral Plural
Them <---Personal Pronoun Dative Neutral 3rd Person Plural

The dative is is used for three purposes
  1. as the indirect object of a verb
  2. how or with what something is done.
  3. relationships of place where and time when
What is odd in this statement about good works, if we are slaves to sin and incapable
of walking with Christ in holiness, purity and love, how can we be doing good works,
surely they will just be polluted failed works attempting to emulate works of Gods
people?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
Not clear what is false here.
A believer is given faith as a gift, and because of this gift they are give salvation as a gift.

Sounds like people are passive in this view. God could give these gifts to anyone, and they
are instantly saved, and presumably can never be lost. Sounds like a calvanist universalism,
God chooses who is saved and who is sent to hell, and no one can do anything about it.
Sounds like truth to me.....

God has dealt to every man a measure of faith

In the grace you are having been saved by faith <----AND that NOT of yourselves is directed at the faith that SAVES

and it is OBVIOUS that SALVATION is equally a GIFT......

AND NO to the underlined bolded...

GOD knows the beginning from the END and MANY are CALLED but few CHOSEN......GOD knew before he cast down the world who would and who would not believe.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
ANYWAY......rocks to chunk out of a 2 acre food plot I planted this week.........be back later..........PEACE
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,856
3,793
113
Hi Bill,

Do you accept some speak with authority in Christ yet their hearts are closed off to Christ?
I ask because the unusual idea that if I express a belief that people come to faith yet backslide
and fall away, based on actual observation of people I know, how does this make me worthy of
not walking with Jesus.

It is like saying a rally driver is not competing in a rally race because they believe rally drivers can
total their cars. It is the competing that defines who they are, not their ideas how you can muck
it up.
I think that depends on what you mean by "Closed off"

My assumption or quote above was based on people talking about Christ yet have no desire to change.

That is different from someone who talks about Jesus and may be carnal but really desires change and will seek Jesus for help. I was that type of person and Jesus healed the cause of the effect. Now that is not someone who is closed off to Jesus.

The main point I was trying to make is that for me talking about Jesus is not bearing fruit but wanting to be like Jesus and seeking him is.

I don't quite get what you are saying concerning the backsliding bit.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Works PRODUCE fruit.

You work in the field to produce fruit.
We are not the field nor the workers nor the fruit's He is the root we are the vine. A wise builder starts with a foundation on the rock but a vineyard starts with fertile soil where roots can flourish, the vines come from the root before fruit can come from the vine. Without enough nutrition from the soil (the Word) we cannot expect much good fruit.
John 1:1-5 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. (NIV)
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,652
16,442
113
We are rewarded for the works that produce fruit.

God gives us the power. And the tools and the energy, but we still have to go and do the work/
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,116
3,530
113
59
AND really, if one wants to be fully HONEST.....NO ONE produces fruit......we are but the branches that BEARS the fruit that is PRODUCED by the ROOT <----JESUS is the one bearing fruit through us as a living sacrifice............
Yes...That is how I understand it...And the blossom comes before the fruit :)...xox...
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,463
113
Anaheim, Cali.
We are rewarded for the works that produce fruit.

God gives us the power. And the tools and the energy, but we still have to go and do the work/
May I add , each according to his measure or ability. A grape vine will not produce a watermelon.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,181
13,482
113
Where is that verse at
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 1 Corinthians 3:11-14
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
What you planted?
Well Bill.......I put 500 kilos of lime to sweeten soil, 250 kilos of fertilizer, 50 kilos of wheat, 5 kilos of medium red clover, 3 kilos of coated ladino white clover, 5 to 6 kilos of red top turnips and a 25 kilo bag of field corn in a 10 foot swath all the way around the outside of the plot HAHHAH

P.S. Like how I used KILOS instead of POUNDS for you? HAH
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,856
3,793
113
Well Bill.......I put 500 kilos of lime to sweeten soil, 250 kilos of fertilizer, 50 kilos of wheat, 5 kilos of medium red clover, 3 kilos of coated ladino white clover, 5 to 6 kilos of red top turnips and a 25 kilo bag of field corn in a 10 foot swath all the way around the outside of the plot HAHHAH

P.S. Like how I used KILOS instead of POUNDS for you? HAH
Will it looks like you planted a lot of Kilo's.
What do you do with the crops?
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
113
ANYWAY......rocks to chunk out of a 2 acre food plot I planted this week.........be back later..........PEACE
are you a farmer? what food did you plant? 2 acre that i think is a big area. do you do it by hand with other people or do you have machines? how big rocks?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,367
113
Will it looks like you planted a lot of Kilo's.
What do you do with the crops?
All for the deer, turkeys, rabbits, squirrels and birds HAHAHHAA Might pick a little corn to eat....the rest 100% feed the animals with