Not By Works

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

We are SAVED BY FAITH ALONE, but faith does not come alone. IT brings friends along. Like love.

1 John 3:18-19- Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him

(Note We know that we are of the truth because we love. I didn't say it, John did.)

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

(We know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren)

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

(Everyone that loves is born of God (regenerated) and knows God. What does that mean for those that don't love?

1 John 4:8- He that loves not, does not know God for God is love.

(whoever does not love, does not know God.)

2 John 1- The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

(Everyone who has known the truth loves the kuria. )

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

RickyZ said:

Yes, beautiful strawman in the first quote, huh?

The armies of strawmen are marching on, harumph, harumph. The armies of strawmen are marching on, harumph, harumph!

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I never twisted what you said. You twisted what I said.

I never said love comes before faith. You made that up.

I said "faith works by love"

...and true saving faith is known by love.

a. We know that we are of the truth because we love.

1 John 3:18-19- Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him

b. We know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

c. Everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:7- Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

d. Whoever does not love does not know God.

1 John 4:8- He that loves not, does not know God for God is love.

e. (Everyone who has known the truth loves the kuria. )

2 John 1- The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

we are justified by faith alone, but genuine faith ALWAYS brings love with it.

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

SO then when Jesus said "He who forgives much loves much, and he who is forgiven little loves little": that means our love is based in part on our sense of God's amazing forgiveness (ie justification)

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Notice I said Otherwise, you have justification based on how much you love, which I don't think is Jesus' intent.

Luke 7:47- 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

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a. Jesus intent was that the woman loved much because she was forgiven for much, and Simon loved little because he was forgiven little. In other words, the woman loved much because she understood and had a sense of how great forgiveness she had received, and Simon loved litte because he didn't have that sense. Read the entire passage Luke 7:36-50

b. n other words, love is based in part on a proper sense of how much and how greatly we've been forgiven

c. You asked me for a text that shows that justification produces love. This was it.

d. Try to keep up.

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

OK, DC. As long as you stop misrepresenting me and building scarecrows, I will drop the subject. I have fully documented my points with scripture. (see last 7 posts, I made them bitesize for you)

Please cease and desist with the strawman argumentation.

And don't say I said before I wouldn't come back and lied, because I said "I will not come back if NO ONE mentions me again." I came back because I was dragged in again.

SO stop with the scarecrows and I will drop the subject. The scripture is there for you and others to take or leave it. That's on you.

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Oh, sorry. I didn't see this.

a. faith without love is dead-

Galatians 5:6- For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Worketh- energeo-

to be operative, be at work, put forth power
1. to work for one, aid one
to effect
to display one's activity, show one's self operative

b. faith does not work properly where love is absent.

Only those who love have ever had saving faith. (1 John 3:18-19;1 John 3:14; 1 John 4:7-8, 2 John 1)

c. Faith without love is faith without works.

1 John 3:18- .. Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth

Love is not just lip service. It manifests itself in action. See James 2:14-16

Anything else? If not, we can agree to disagree at this point.

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

Every heart in which saving faith has come, (perfect tense), you will always find love dwelling there. (present tense)

(1 John 3:18-19; 1 John 3:14; 1 John 4:7-8, 2 John 1)

This settles it.

posthuman · Apr 22, 2019

Macabeus said:

let's put this to practice

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

a. How long after we have believed do we have to wait to pass from death unto life?

b. The same ammount of time we have to wait to love.

c. For we know that we passed from death unto life because we love,

d. and if we do not love, we have not passed from death unto life, but rather abide in death.

OK, that should settle it.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Love exists in everyone. Look around you. Love is in mothers and fathers for their children,
their families, their parents. It exists in non-believers, believers, in young children and old
grand parents.

To me you have to be totally not there to not see love everywhere. It is so prevalent that
humanism founds itself on the love of man irrespective of faith.

No it is possible some are so hurt and hard hearted they have literally become disconnected
with their own love. Some people childhoods cause them to shut off this time and want to
forget. Others see every interaction with pain, and can never get attached to anyone.

So I would argue, declare love is innate in humans, it is our likeness to the Father, why we are
made in Him image.

So for me to respond to a declaration "LOVE did not come before FAITH" is just to declare anyone
who holds such a belief is severly damaged and hurt.

Just to emphasise the core power of love, yound women will find a partner and get pregnant to
fill their lack of a loving relationship with this relationship with a young baby who will love without
restraint, though will also demand a lot, but give a dynamic that some have lost is the tumult of sin
and broken families.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 22, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Hi dcon,

What you call twisting might be the truth, and what you present may be the twisted reality.
Is not our only true reference point the Lord and who He is?

And in this arena we can often be discussing a point with others who have very different
positions, yet we address them as if they are the same. It takes a lot of care to not fall into
this approach.

What helps is putting positions in the abstract, and not personalising them. We can then begin
to be honest and look at our loyalties and how the Lord helps us to change. In the end our goal
in Christ is to walk in His ways and according to His will.

God bless you

gb9 · Apr 22, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Hi dcon,

What you call twisting might be the truth, and what you present may be the twisted reality.
Is not our only true reference point the Lord and who He is?

And in this arena we can often be discussing a point with others who have very different
positions, yet we address them as if they are the same. It takes a lot of care to not fall into
this approach.

What helps is putting positions in the abstract, and not personalising them. We can then begin
to be honest and look at our loyalties and how the Lord helps us to change. In the end our goal
in Christ is to walk in His ways and according to His will.

God bless you

you do not think grace is free, and you do not accept the Biblical definition of sin. your lecturing is useless.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 22, 2019

Love Shut out

I know many who have got so battered from life, love and hope has been shut out.
They come to Christ, and the cross, and find love and forgiveness flooding in to them.

So it is easy to then think first came faith, then love. But love was always present, it
had been locked down, put to one side, ignored, excluded because of hurt, sin and hatred.

It is why we need to be careful to understand how people come to be lost sinners, without
hope and wondering alone. When we come to life, and love in Christ, we then need to see
others experience life from many other perspectives than our own, and we need to listen
and reach out, to let Christs love flow to those around.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Rom 8

FollowHisSteps · Apr 22, 2019

gb9 said:

Grace has always been free, and I do accept the biblical definition of sin, so your condemnation
is simply wrong. And you have a strange idea about sharing about the realities of life as if this
is lecturing. The words I speak are meant to be self evident, not because I say them, they stand
by themselves. That is how truth works, and Jesus is the Truth, Amen. God bless you

FollowHisSteps · Apr 22, 2019

Free for some means without conditions. A wicked man in his heart will think they
deserve forgiveness, while still being able to continue in their wickedness.
This is the kind of freedom some imagine God to be like. But God is like this

1 An oracle is within my heart concerning the sinfulness of the wicked: There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For in his own eyes he flatters himself too much to detect or hate his sin.
3 The words of his mouth are wicked and deceitful; he has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 Even on his bed he plots evil; he commits himself to a sinful course and does not reject what is wrong.
Psalm 36

The idea that wicked men can rebuke someone who upholds the righteousness of God,
demonstrates how truly lost some are.

19 Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."
2 tim 2

9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
10 For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
1 Peter 3

gb9 · Apr 22, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

so, thanks for sharing your love by calling me wicked. same thing as saying " this place is full of old, bitter retired people "

yep, sprit of love on display.

I take no pleasure in standing up to your and your silly church and it's silly, lying, man-made creed;

I want you and all people to give all glory to God, accept that grace is free, and accept that salvation is all Christ, not you.

that is what I want, for people to swallow their pride, and admit we are sinners in need of a savior.
so, call me a wicked, I do not care.

I tell you the truth about sin and salvation. you reject in, and go with a silly , man-made church creed. bad choice, but we all have free will.

Macabeus · Apr 22, 2019

gb9 said:

NO different than you calling me a legalist, GB9.

gb9 · Apr 22, 2019

Macabeus said:

I am telling you what you are. I can prove it to you by the comparing the definition of the words " inspector " and " legalist " to your posts.

disagreeing with a man-made teaching does not make one wicked.

Melach · Apr 22, 2019

why does God say fearful have their place in lake of fire? who can help fear? is fear a sin?

why is it even listed, i dont know of no honest man or woman who says they have never feared. by that list nobody makes it, but then our sins are gone in Jesus. but when they are gone in Jesus, why does that list even exist? does anyone have an answer? is it to scare the non-believers who may be reading the book of revelation?

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