Not By Works

[PeterJens]

Your seariously gone in the head but never the less i can still love a nutjob.

What fascist party are you from and how big is your pedistool

Jimbo - Hello. I am gone in the head. I do not know your theological position or where
you stand in the faith. It sounds like you do not believe is Gods sense of holiness, and if
I hold gay relationships are sinful, I am wrong and fascist.

The problem with sending a society on the road to sexual impulses are ok and neutral,
is it starts a runaway sexual abuse train, into more and more extreme practices.

With the growth of porn, child abuse, sado mascism, things are getting worse, a whole
generation growing up with access to rape discussion groups, turning women into purely
sexual objects.

Yet in Christ, we should just give in, and let this filth go by, because victorian morality is
evil, and holding principles that lusts corrupt and destroy the heart is a fascist belief.

So I know where you are coming from.

 

[garee]

nooo the bold means reasurance

You would have to define fall away..Those who do fall and were trusting in a righteousness of their own to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, they never received the Spirit of Christ. .Every time they fall because they do not trust in eternal security they must crucify Christ again and again. Better things accompany salvation to those who do have the Spirit of Christ according to His work of faith. They are given the understanding that no man can come unless the Father enables them and if He is drawing them in no way will he cast them out .He cannot deny himself . If Christ has begun the good work of salvation in us He promises He will finish it to the very end. The others group in the Hebrew six boat remain unsaved drifting out towards the sea..

 

[dcontroversal]

BACK on track BOYS and the topic is SALVATION based UPON faith without works attached (for salvation)

 

[garee]

BACK on track BOYS and the topic is SALVATION based UPON faith without works attached (for salvation)

Faith without works is dead (impossible to divide) We are saved by the work of Christ's faith and not that of or own .Better things accompany salvation called redemption .They as the other group are the ones that do not need to crucify Christ again and again .He finished all the necessary the first time.

 

[dcontroversal]

Faith without works is dead (impossible to divide) We are saved by the work of Christ's faith and not that of or own .Better things accompany salvation called redemption .They as the other group are the ones that do not need to crucify Christ again and again .He finished all the necessary the first time.

So then you believe a gospel of a different KIND with no power to save.

WE conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW (WORKS)

BIBLICAL salvation s based ON FAITH VOID OF WORKS...end of STORY!

 

[garee]

Anglicans, however, do agree that their beliefs and practices, their authority, derive from an integration of Scripture (the Holy Bible), Reason (the intellect and the experience of God) and Tradition (the practices and beliefs of the historical church). This ‘three-legged stool’ is said to demonstrate a ‘balance’ in the Anglican approach to faith contrasting it with Roman Catholic and the Protestant doctrines. The term via media when used in reference to the Anglican tradition generally refers to the idea that Anglicanism represents a middle way between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.

The test is does the Anglican denomination say we need a man to teach us or teach them ?

I see that the Anglican like the unbelieving Jew they have a law of the fathers making their oral traditions equal to the authority of as it is written, as if all three (‘three-legged stool’ ) came from the mouth of God?

Mixing the oral traditions with men as the things of men with the tradition of God, the bible, as the things of God. Therefore making no distinction between the two.....offending God in the process.

The truth is Christians have one source of faith, as it is written. It is by the same spirit as is it written that we can hear God and believe to the salvation of ones soul, as His word performs the quickening work..

Adding to the exclusive one source of the faith of God, the oral tradition of men and intellect as did the Greek philosophers who sought after an intellectual gospel that made the cross without effect .and adding experiences of what they call historical church .

It simply makes the gospel according to the same spirit of faith (Christ’s) as it is written to no effect.

We walk by the faith of Christ, the church has no form to behold . Walking by sight only shows a person is following another gospel , another Christ.

 

[oldethennew]

Christ is the FAITH=GIVER, what we do with His gifts is our own 'choice'...

 

[garee]

So then you believe a gospel of a different KIND with no power to save.

WE conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW (WORKS)

BIBLICAL salvation s based ON FAITH VOID OF WORKS...end of STORY!

Christ's work of faith according to His three day labor of love is all the authority needed to believe God. So it not without works but is with the work of Christ, exclusively, not of our own self coming from the imaginations of our heart,.

It is the work of God that we can believe Him . Can't separate the two.

 

[dcontroversal]

Christ's work of faith according to His three day labor of love is all the authority needed to believe God. So it not without works but is with the work of Christ, exclusively, not of our own self coming from the imaginations of our heart,.

It is the work of God that we can believe Him . Can't separate the two.

Your twisting.....and you know EXACTLY the point that is being made...MEN and their WORKS do NOT help one get saved and or KEEP saved....so...........!

 

[PeterJens]

It is obvious that a belief system has been adopted which is unshakeable.

I would ask a simple question, what is the emotional cost of changing this position?

If ones whole spiritual framework, friends, church, lifes conclusions hangs on this
one point, nothing is neutral. So the cost means ones mind cannot even look at
an alternative without a major life incident. This is the power of belief and why
one can get trapped in ones own belief framework without realising it.

It can become a real prison when one thinks it is really freedom. The key sign
whether this is happening is if you can empathise without difficulty other peoples
frameworks, and you know why they conclude what they do.

 

[dcontroversal]

It is obvious that a belief system has been adopted which is unshakeable.

I would ask a simple question, what is the emotional cost of changing this position?

If ones whole spiritual framework, friends, church, lifes conclusions hangs on this
one point, nothing is neutral. So the cost means ones mind cannot even look at
an alternative without a major life incident. This is the power of belief and why
one can get trapped in ones own belief framework without realising it.

It can become a real prison when one thinks it is really freedom. The key sign
whether this is happening is if you can empathise without difficulty other peoples
frameworks, and you know why they conclude what they do.

This shows a lack of understanding and not only by yourself but many as well....

THE ROOT is either GOOD or it is CORRUPT

THE root is SALVATION.....and there is ONLY 1 (one) gospel (correct message) that leads to biblical salvation....

Galatians chapter 1 and 3 in and of itself alleviates faith + works for salvation

The bible states clearly that we are not to be removed from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus....it is a simple thing to save one that believes into Jesus and acknowledges Jesus as Lord and Savior.....God was clear...It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.....yet men continually add their stipulations....religious works, immersion, church membership or affiliation, the ability to lose it and regain it etc....The tragic truth is ALL who add and boast of their works as a part of salvation will be cast from the presence of Jesus into the lake of fire because they attempted a different door than that which has been given.....simple faith.....the faith of a child!

 

[garee]

Christ is the FAITH=GIVER, what we do with His gifts is our own 'choice'...

I would think after He gives them as His choice gifts, we should use them properly as our choice. It is the work of God by which we can believe God, it is not of ourselves coming from the a imagination of our sinful hearts. .Our names were written in the lambs book of Choice from the foundation of the world,

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

As many as the Father gave the Son they will come He will not cast His choice out. Or at least that is how I hear .

 

[garee]

Your twisting.....and you know EXACTLY the point that is being made...MEN and their WORKS do NOT help one get saved and or KEEP saved....so...........!

You seem to be saying the same thing.By His work of faith not of our own imagination of our hearts (human faith apart from the faith of Christ.) He calls it no faith . As a gift we have the one faith that did work to provide salvation. It is the mutual faith of Christ given to all believers, not of our own selves. We can do nothing to attribute to our salvation. to say yes is to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called heavenward.

Faith cannot be separated from works.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

[dcontroversal]

You seem to be saying the same thing.By His work of faith not of our own imagination of our hearts (human faith apart from the faith of Christ.) He calls it no faith . As a gift we have the one faith that did work to provide salvation. It is the mutual faith of Christ given to all believers, not of our own selves. We can do nothing to attribute to our salvation. to say yes is to blaspheme the Holy name by which we are called heavenward.

Faith cannot be separated from works.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

I have always said it was the faith of Christ and by the finished work of Jesus.....my point has always been that our salvation is void of any human effort....

 

[PeterJens]

I had a great in sight today, belief in a world of cynicism and unbelief.

When people say they believe in someone, they mean they like them, they have good
intentions, but nothing more.

When Jesus says believe in me, He means you trust His words to death.
Every word has an intention and an outcome. Nothing is vain or empty, nothing without
purpose or direction.

So to believe in Christ and not obey, is not belief, but cynicism and unbelief.
Arguing one can believe in Christ yet not follow, is saying it is all nice, but you reserve
the right to do what you want.

But Jesus is saying this lack of communion with Him is the whole problem, man going his
own way. So saying you are now going to go Jesus's way but not, is therefore lying
to yourself you know Christ at all.

Little wonder with a group of people holding the name of Christ yet not following, you
end up with hypocrites and totally conflicted defeated people.

 

[Seohce]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, i really appreciate it. I am just wondering why you said that works are result of the SALVATION ONE ALREADY POSSESS. Has the Lord our savior returned already or has tribulation, resurrection & judgment day passed me by without knowing it? As a Christian we eagerly await in HOPE for the coming of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. By saying that we ALREADY POSSESS OUR SALVATION would invalidate or disprove our HOPE for these things. This i think is the reason why there is an argument regarding good works. Please enlighten me regarding this or correct me if i’m wrong. The ff; verses may help. Thanks.


1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be DISQUALIFIED for the prize.


Romans 8:24-25, For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Hebrews 11:1 Now FAITH is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we do not see.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


Romans 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED..

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING(ongoing process) the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Matthew 19:17-21,23 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hebrews 13:8-9,21 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. (May God) equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

John 12:50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

1 Corinthians 15:56-58 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for
him.


Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.


Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil

 

[Seohce]

The Greek version of HOPE (NEW TESTAMENT written in GREEK) expresses a confident expectation of something that is assured and guaranteed.....The English use falls way short of accurately describing the meaning of the Greek word translated hope.....and notice the past tense of justified (rendered innocent) and glorified....all based upon being (marked off) predestined to being conformed to his image......

Before the casting down of the world God predetermined that ALL who come to him through his SON by faith would be saved, justified, sanctified, glorified and conformed to the image of his son and sealed with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE which is the down payment of our eternal inheritance in Christ.....Salvation is a once for all act based upon faith....It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe....AFTER BIRTH (that which is born of SPIRIT is SPIRIT) there is a process of growth and maturity that leads to the sanctification of one's life in CHRIST.....We change outwardly because of the change inwardly...Romans 12:1-2 speaks to this...not being molded and shaped by this world but being transformed by the renewing of the mind.....we get the word Metamorphosis from the Greek word translated (TRANSFORMED)...I.E. we feed the NEW NATURE that has been born of GOD and through a process of growth and sanctification we change outwardly and become more and more like Christ.....this can be stunted by a lack of study and or application of the word of God!

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, i really appreciate it. I am just wondering why you said that works are result of the SALVATION ONE ALREADY POSSESS. Has the Lord our savior returned already or has tribulation, resurrection & judgment day passed me by without knowing it? As a Christian we eagerly await in HOPE for the coming of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. By saying that we ALREADY POSSESS OUR SALVATION would invalidate or disprove our HOPE for these things. This i think is the reason why there is an argument regarding good works. Please enlighten me regarding this or correct me if i’m wrong. The ff; verses may help. Thanks.


1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be DISQUALIFIED for the prize.


Romans 8:24-25, For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But HOPE THAT IS SEEN IS NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Hebrews 11:1 Now FAITH is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we do not see.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


Romans 13:11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our SALVATION IS NEARER NOW THAN WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED..

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING(ongoing process) the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Matthew 19:17-21,23 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hebrews 13:8-9,21 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. (May God) equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

John 12:50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

1 Corinthians 15:56-58 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for
him.


Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.


Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil

 

[garee]

So to believe in Christ and not obey, is not belief, but cynicism and unbelief.
Arguing one can believe in Christ yet not follow, is saying it is all nice, but you reserve
the right to do what you want.

It is actually saying He reserves His right even if we deny Him, in unbelief .He cannot deny Himself. He has either paid the wage for all of our sins (past, present and future)or He has done nothing. There is no limbo in between .

 

[garee]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge, i really appreciate it. I am just wondering why you said that works are result of the SALVATION ONE ALREADY POSSESS.

It is Him giving us His faith according to His works. It gives us a living hope that surpasses human hope. Not a work of faith coming from our own selves, according to our own understanding..

Has the Lord our savior returned already or has tribulation, resurrection & judgment day passed me by without knowing it? As a Christian we eagerly await in HOPE for the coming of our savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

.

God is not a man as us. Never was, never will be or even could be. .He has no beginning of days or end of Spirit life. He cannot create another God who does. He would have a beginning.

He has already come in the flesh, it died. Christ as the Holy Spirit cannot die. We are not to look for Him to appear in the corrupted flesh , ever again. There is no prophecy that says He again will put on corrupted flesh for more than one demonstration of Him pouring out His Spirit, as if it was blood.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Co 5:16

By saying that we ALREADY POSSESS OUR SALVATION would invalidate or disprove our HOPE for these things.

If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.1Corinthians 15:19

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.For we are “saved by hope”: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. om 8:22

All of the saints died in that hope not receiving the promise.

This i think is the reason why there is an argument regarding good works. Please enlighten me regarding this or correct me if i’m wrong. The ff; verses may help. Thanks.

I can offer my opinion. He does the correcting if needed..

We are saved by His work of faith according to His labor of love . If he has begun the good work of salvation in us ...He will finish it to the very end. It is our living hope that will never disappoint us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hope in the true biblical use of the word is a "confident expectation of good". It is something we have now and we will see it as sure as the Pope is catholic......

The world uses the word hope as in "maybe and maybe not". This is not God's definition of the hope that is in Christ.

If we get this wrong then we will mis-interpret a lot of scriptures and we will create a self-righteousness/holiness works based religion which actually denies the grace of God from operating in our lives like it should and it denies the work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and resurrection.