Not By Works

[BillG]

It is like a youngster being cleaned and told to stay clean, ignoring the advice and going out and doing
exactly the same things that caused them problems.

Does not foot washing apply here?
Not saying it does but asking.

Are we declared clean as a result of Jesus?
Are we not called to be like Jesus? (Rhetorical)
Yet we still get it wrong.

Hence foot washing.

John 13:8-11
8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”
10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

1 John 1:7-9
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


When we wash one another’s feet it’s us supporting each another in times of weakness and failure. We put our arm around a fallen brother and help him rise again. Is this not a sign of true spirituality and love?

You quote Peter, but is a true believer a dog or sow?

Will they stay clean?

I say no, but that is not a defeated attitude.
It's an attitude that realises we need to be on guard, seek God for help, stand firm.
Yet also acknowledge when we get it wrong fess it up straight away and ask for help.

Lots of belivers do not do that because they are waiting for the slap.
And do not realise that Jesus is interceding for them.

 

[BillG]

You NEED to read Matthew 7:13-20 FIRST, then read the rest. THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

It is Not THAT you KEEP doing the things he says, IT IS WHY YOU KEEP DOING THE THINGS HE SAYS. If it is not PURELY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM, YOU DO NOT KNOW HIM.

NOTICE THE ONES WHO TRIED TO ENTER BASED ON THEIR WORKS, WITHOUT THE CORRECT MOTIVE:

Matthew 7:22 (HCSB)
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’

WORKS WITHOUT THE CORRECT MOTIVE OF LOVE FOR HIM, ARE A BIG PILE OF FILTHY RAGS. And you do not want to know what the filth is on those rags.

That I NEVER KNEW YOU, is a reference to the inner, personal, LOVE, relationtionship, with the LORD meaning MASTER, that only comes through the BORN AGAIN relationship, where the Holy Spirit comes into you heart (human spirit) to birth your human spirit, bringing it into eternal life, pouring GOD's LOVE directly into your heart (Rom. 5:5) where your human spirit resides.

No amount of righteous Deeds can SAVE YOU, unless you willingly surrender to HIM first OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM, the ONLY pure MOTIVE that GOD VALUES. Therefore you are SAVED before the deeds of righteousness.


Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

1 Chronicles 28:9 (NIV)
9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

1 Chronicles 29:17 (NJB)
17 ‘Knowing, my God, how you examine our motives and how you delight in integrity, with integrity of motive I have willingly given all this and have been overjoyed to see your people, now present here, willingly offering their gifts to you.

Romans 8:27 (NRSV)
27 And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Revelation 2:23 (ESV)
23 . . . And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

2 Timothy 1:9 (CSBBible)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


So do you serve the LORD out of a sense of Duty, Mat. 7:22;
OR,
Do you serve HIM purely because you LOVE HIM, because HE SAVED YOU ? ? ?

The problem is that if a believer who comes to Jesus has never experienced a loving relationship but one where false love is expressed and rewarded based on compliance then there is only one path they walk on.

I personally do not believe that genuine believers who fall foul of this are not saved.
They seek a relationship based on life experiences to earn love and acceptance. They just want to be loved and love.

That's different from those who never knew him.
They did not want to know him.

 

[VCO]

I love the image of Christ and the Dove you chose for this Picture.

Now Jesus was a Nazarene, do you know what a Nazarene Shepherd looks like?

So, how come every picture we see of Jesus is a white Caucasian ? Oh, yeah, because all the famous artists were from Europe, and had never seen a Nazarene.

 

[VCO]

The problem is that if a believer who comes to Jesus has never experienced a loving relationship but one where false love is expressed and rewarded based on compliance then there is only one path they walk on.

I personally do not believe that genuine believers who fall foul of this are not saved.
They seek a relationship based on life experiences to earn love and acceptance. They just want to be loved and love.

That's different from those who never knew him.
They did not want to know him.

Not understanding what true LOVE is, most definitely is not an excuse, because at the Beginning of true Faith, HE had the Holy Spirit POUR GOD's LOVE directly into our HEARTS (Human Spirit).

Romans 5:1-10 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We have also obtained access through Him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance,
4 endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope.
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For while we were still helpless, at the appointed moment, Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For rarely will someone die for a just person—though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die.
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

 

[BillG]

The problem is that if a believer who comes to Jesus has never experienced a loving relationship but one where false love is expressed and rewarded based on compliance then there is only one path they walk on.

I personally do not believe that genuine believers who fall foul of this are not saved.
They seek a relationship based on life experiences to earn love and acceptance. They just want to be loved and love.

That's different from those who never knew him.
They did not want to know him.

If only belivers know that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus.
Not because they are compliant or sinless but because they are his children.
Beloved of the Father, adopted in to the family.

 

[Magenta]

I love the image of Christ and the Dove you chose for this Picture.
Now Jesus was a Nazarene, do you know what a Nazarene Shepherd looks like?

So, how come every picture we see of Jesus is a white Caucasian ? Oh, yeah, because all the famous artists were from Europe, and had never seen a Nazarene.

Thank you, VCO Many of the images I use depicting Jesus do not make Him look white/Caucasian. Plus, they are almost all certainly post-resurrection, so He is being shown in His glorified body. Do we know what that looked like? Those who knew Him best, the apostles... did not even recognize Him

 

[BillG]

Not understanding what true LOVE is, most definitely is not an excuse, because at the Beginning of true Faith, HE had the Holy Spirit POUR GOD's LOVE directly into our HEARTS (Human Spirit).

Not sure what you are saying here.

If we do not know true love then it will affect our relationship with God, no matter what the Bible says.

To me that's where healing and release comes in.

 

[stonesoffire]

People are all going to hell, only Gods people have the light, and through their witness are people
brought into the Kingdom.

Sadly the idea there is a deep enemy who are snatching the saved to hell is just deception.
Those without the Holy Spirit are lost, without hope.

Our calling is to shine the light of Jesus's love to show others how He works in this world
through His people, and how His life is more precious than anything else anyone could ever have.
Amen, thank you Jesus.

This is just addressing a mindset that religion will paint.

Jesus died for all. This is the good news. It’s not the will of Father that any be lost. If we give the good news of the true gospel, men, all men will be drawn to Him.

To state that all are going to hell is hellfire and brimstone preaching to scare people to being saved. Does not reveal the love of Father that He has for His creation. Who would reject the truth? Given in the power of Holy Spirit (anointing).

It’s not a weak message, sipid message without power. The truth sets men free. Then, as many then receive Him, He gives the power (Holy Spirit) to become Sons of God.

Say not in our hearts who goes up, or descends...the message preached-received by faith saves,

What great love the Father Himself has for us who sacrificed His only Son, that we might be saved from our. own failures to be like Him. Placed into His innocence and declared just and righteous in His sight.

It might take years for this truth of Gods love to penetrate and overtake those who are taught God as a judge without mercy.

By grace through faith.

 

[BillG]

It might take years for this truth of Gods love to penetrate and overtake those who are taught God as a judge without mercy.

Amen Stones.
Amen.

 

[gb9]

1 John 2:6- He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 4:17- Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Important Note- These are not talking about sinless perfection in walk, (an attribute that can only be said of Jesus' earthly walk), but Christlikeness in walk

yes, I agree.

but, follwingpeterjensteps says, or more specifically his silly church, with their man-made opinion of a creed state that one does not receive salvation UNTIL they walk just as He walked, thereby making salvation a destination to arrive at, rather than making making walking just as He walked a goal, which is what we should do,

 

[dcontroversal]

yes, I agree.

but, follwingpeterjensteps says, or more specifically his silly church, with their man-made opinion of a creed state that one does not receive salvation UNTIL they walk just as He walked, thereby making salvation a destination to arrive at, rather than making making walking just as He walked a goal, which is what we should do,

AMEN bro...........salvation is given immediately upon belief....it is NOT something we GAIN over time, nor is it based upon our walk.....end of story.....

 

[Macabeus]

yes, I agree.

but, follwingpeterjensteps says, or more specifically his silly church, with their man-made opinion of a creed state that one does not receive salvation UNTIL they walk just as He walked, thereby making salvation a destination to arrive at, rather than making making walking just as He walked a goal, which is what we should do,

The only steps we need to be saved is repentance towards God and faith in Jesus, and then the walk follows as the desired (by God) effects of salvation. I know you agree with this, but just stating this to state where I stand on this.

 

[Macabeus]

AMEN bro...........salvation is given immediately upon belief....it is NOT something we GAIN over time.....

Amen and agreed.

nor is it based upon our walk .....

Agreed, but faith will condition our walk; bringing it (our walk) into a desired (by God) state over time, that is, progressively.

end of story...

or the beginning of a beautiful story of what God will do in our lives.

 

[Macabeus]

yes, I agree.

but, follwingpeterjensteps says, or more specifically his silly church, with their man-made opinion of a creed state that one does not receive salvation UNTIL they walk just as He walked, thereby making salvation a destination to arrive at, rather than making making walking just as He walked a goal, which is what we should do,

There is a sense in which we are saved and being saved. But it is not our works that do it, it is God's work from beginning to end.

Romans 5:9-10- Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. (10) For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Hebrews 7:25-Thefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Justified by faith... kept by the power of God through faith.

But, yes, salvation is instantaneous, with continuous results, as you said earlier.

 

[VCO]

Not sure what you are saying here.

If we do not know true love then it will affect our relationship with God, no matter what the Bible says.

To me that's where healing and release comes in.

That Pouring into the GOOD SOIL of our HEART, is a SEED, that will sprout the SAME KIND OF LOVE for HIM, and the Brethren, as the Holy Spirit sowed into our hearts.


1 John 3:17 (HCSB)
17 If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—
how can God’s love reside in him?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

yes, I agree.

but, follwingpeterjensteps says, or more specifically his silly church, with their man-made opinion of a creed state that one does not receive salvation UNTIL they walk just as He walked, thereby making salvation a destination to arrive at, rather than making making walking just as He walked a goal, which is what we should do,

silly church - sounds like mockery, but without foundation.
The roman soldiers who wipped Jesus behaved in the same way, it is not unexpected from those
who neither understand love, sacrifice or forgiveness.

I agree we are to walk as Jesus walked, which is our communion with Him, but clearly you at
one point think you are attacking someone then at the next agreeing with them. That is not
understanding anothers position or even ones own, God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Does not foot washing apply here?
Not saying it does but asking.

Are we declared clean as a result of Jesus?
Are we not called to be like Jesus? (Rhetorical)
Yet we still get it wrong.

Hence foot washing.

John 13:8-11
8 Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!”
Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!”
10 Jesus said to him, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11 For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, “You are not all clean.”

1 John 1:7-9
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


When we wash one another’s feet it’s us supporting each another in times of weakness and failure. We put our arm around a fallen brother and help him rise again. Is this not a sign of true spirituality and love?

You quote Peter, but is a true believer a dog or sow?

Will they stay clean?

I say no, but that is not a defeated attitude.
It's an attitude that realises we need to be on guard, seek God for help, stand firm.
Yet also acknowledge when we get it wrong fess it up straight away and ask for help.

Lots of belivers do not do that because they are waiting for the slap.
And do not realise that Jesus is interceding for them.

Foot washing is service one to another, walking in the light is being open and honest.
I think you are saying people respond if we truly love and get to know them.

I would say we love people and get alongside them whatever their needs, not because of them.
Co-dependency is behaviour that wants attention, and the giver of attention wants the role of
providing it. If we love equally in dependent of need, then we can avoid such things.

And being in love is our walk, walking in the Spirit and exercising His work in our hearts.
I praise God He calls us to such things, and the more we are blessed the more we want to do.
Thank you Jesus.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Amen and agreed.

Agreed, but faith will condition our walk; bringing it (our walk) into a desired (by God) state over time, that is, progressively.

or the beginning of a beautiful story of what God will do in our lives.

The games some play is just to provoke responses. The more I see, the plainer it becomes, love
those you meet, exercise the fruit of the Spirit and bless in as many ways as you know how.

We come to faith, we walk in faith, we are saved by faith.
And faith expresses itself through love, our hearts and our walk.

Reprobates desire to justify their unconfessed sin as inevitable, rather than submit and believe
in change and transformation so stay locked in this repetition of the same ideas, like ground hog
day, neither going beyond the point of first belief or overcoming their sinful behaviour.

 

[gb9]

silly church - sounds like mockery, but without foundation.
The roman soldiers who wipped Jesus behaved in the same way, it is not unexpected from those
who neither understand love, sacrifice or forgiveness.

I agree we are to walk as Jesus walked, which is our communion with Him, but clearly you at
one point think you are attacking someone then at the next agreeing with them. That is not
understanding anothers position or even ones own, God bless you.

I do agree we are to walk just as He walked.
but, as I said, it is a goal to aim at, not a destination to arrive at, with the arrival bringing salvation, that is why I stand against false teaching lies like your church pushes.

we are forgiven and saved by belief. the walk is something we do BECAUSE we are saved, not to " get there and get it".

 

[VCO]

Thank you, VCO Many of the images I use depicting Jesus do not make Him look white/Caucasian. Plus, they are almost all certainly post-resurrection, so He is being shown in His glorified body. Do we know what that looked like? Those who knew Him best, the apostles... did not even recognize Him

You got a point! AMEN!