Not By Works

[BillG]

There is a standard of walking with Jesus as a community we need to uphold.
So there is righteous judging and rebuking that we are called to do, about obvious sin and rebellion.

Yep.

My attitude on this has always been to get alongside such people and see why and what is the issue,
because often things are not as they appear.

Yep also.

And I have said this many times and will always say it.
Generally there is a cause of the effect.
Let's seek out that.
Not is all that it seems.
Let's not any of us make judgment before.
If a person makes it clear that they have no interest in change then we can make a righteous judgment.

If they want to change but still struggle to make the changes then we must walk with them.

The fact is that Jesus came to set the prisoner free.
We are called to be like Jesus.
He came to break the chains of bondage.
He has called us to do the same.
We are called to be like Jesus.

Never ever give up on the broken hearted, the downtrodden, those who seek Jesus yet do not see the reality of who they are in him.
Such a person he will not reject.

A heart issue.

 

[BillG]

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2

1 John 2:6
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Take the must out of your post and change it with I want to walk like Jesus as did then you have a point.

To say we must conveys we must be perfect like he was.
Do you agree we will not be as perfect as he was and is?

 

[dcontroversal]

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2

Here is scripture, saying how we are to walk. With a born again heart, filled with the Holy Spirit this is
possible.

But for some to quote scripture and to obey scripture is not allowed.

Peter...your drivel, deception and blather does not make my radar as truth......you conflate numerous truths into a deceptive lie........when you can be honest and obey the rule of this site by remaining banned....I might start listening....until then....what the bible teaches does not jive with your view of what the bible teaches.......

 

[theanointedwinner]

If there is one perfect moment, it would be the moment of salvation, other moments are imperfect

I make this as obvious and clear as possible, it's hard to let light shine or be the salt of the Earth for this one

Sometimes, patience is required

 

[VCO]

This sentence did not read right in the last post, and I has substituted the word "to", for "with the". SORRY. "The correct way to come back is to write the Management Staff, GET PERMISSION, and Come Back under the SAME NAME.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

1 John 2:6
6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Take the must out of your post and change it with I want to walk like Jesus as did then you have a point.

To say we must conveys we must be perfect like he was.
Do you agree we will not be as perfect as he was and is?

To be honest, do I fully understand what John means? No.
the word ought is also translated in other places as must, are bound, owe, indebted, duty, obligated

This is a road of discovery and questions. I have never been able to answer about Christs walk, because
I do not know it well enough, or have thought like this and picked up enough points to see it better.

To me John is saying this is our example, so those who obviously are in sin and rebellion are not the
ones we should listen to or follow. And for those who cannot even ask what does John mean, you need
to begin to get right with God and see the road of life He is offering us, and leading us along.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Yep.


Yep also.

And I have said this many times and will always say it.
Generally there is a cause of the effect.
Let's seek out that.
Not is all that it seems.
Let's not any of us make judgment before.
If a person makes it clear that they have no interest in change then we can make a righteous judgment.

If they want to change but still struggle to make the changes then we must walk with them.

The fact is that Jesus came to set the prisoner free.
We are called to be like Jesus.
He came to break the chains of bondage.
He has called us to do the same.
We are called to be like Jesus.

Never ever give up on the broken hearted, the downtrodden, those who seek Jesus yet do not see the reality of who they are in him.
Such a person he will not reject.

A heart issue.

A heart issue - everything in Jesus is a heart issue.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Peter...your drivel, deception and blather does not make my radar as truth......you conflate numerous truths into a deceptive lie........when you can be honest and obey the rule of this site by remaining banned....I might start listening....until then....what the bible teaches does not jive with your view of what the bible teaches.......

The joke is you are like a fireworks display, but just a lot of flashes and bangs.
drivel, deception, blather, does not sound like anything, other than drivel and blather for someone who actually
has no argument or foundation. We have one authority, God and our guidance is His word.

You will always have, like myself, people who take different views to ourselves, but that is no surprise. What is
a surprise is you believe we as followers of Jesus respect an opinion which does not refer to Him.

Love is a hard word to understand if ones heart is hard. I wonder what you are so scared of to take so much
note of my occassional contributions, mainly quoting scripture and encouraging others to follow and rejoice
in Jesus. Is this something you are opposing, because it seems very unclear where your position is coming
from other than the confidence some have put in your opinions? God bless you, and thanks for the attention,
I am so blessed that you deem me worthy of such praise........ Praise the Lord.

3 Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.
4 The LORD works out everything for his own ends- even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Proverbs 16

12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when
you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying
before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you
14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen
or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
1 Timothy 6

 

[Macabeus]

Except when you go read everything he wrote as Peterjens and the other name or two he has been found under.....You do understand that he does not believe this happens UNTIL one WALKS as he walked.....or maybe you have not been reading the thread.....

He agreed to the following statement when asked...and the statement is VERY CLEAR

quote To settle the issue once and for all, do you believe that a person is regenerated, justified, adopted, given eternal life, and positionally sanctified (set apart as holy to the Lord) by faith alone, without preceding works and that works follow? unquote

 

[Macabeus]

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2

Here is scripture, saying how we are to walk. With a born again heart, filled with the Holy Spirit this is
possible.

But for some to quote scripture and to obey scripture is not allowed.

Basically what I am reading is conversion includes repentance and life change. If that is what you are saying, I agree.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

He agreed to the following statement when asked...and the statement is VERY CLEAR

quote To settle the issue once and for all, do you believe that a person is regenerated, justified, adopted, given eternal life, and positionally sanctified (set apart as holy to the Lord) by faith alone, without preceding works and that works follow? unquote

Amen. All brothers and sisters in Christ walk by faith, live by faith and are saved by faith.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Basically what I am reading is conversion includes repentance and life change. If that is what you are saying, I agree.

There are some unusual believers who deny either repentance is needed, turning from sin, feeling
sorrow for sin, dedication to walk in love and doing righteous actions, or that life change is a demonstration
of a real spiritual change. I always wonder at this, because for me Jesus is everything and to not follow Him
and change, is to deny what He is. A thief stops stealing, the sexually immoral stops being sexually immoral,
slanderers stop slanderering, liars stop lying etc. If this does not take place, then no encounter has taken place.

 

[Macabeus]

The problem is why such misunderstanding comes about.
There was a guy on here who used to use the word KISS.
"Keep it simple stupid"

This I agree with and disagree with.
I agree with keep it simple but disagree with stupid.
How many of us on here have had to realign the truth of what we believe to the truth that sets us free in Jesus.

A simple case for me was that I did not believe God loved me unless I did good works or was perfect or was just like Jesus.

That was my truth, but that is not the truth.
Jesus said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"
He was praying for his disciples. People not like you and me who are not perfect.

Was I stupid?
I say no but I was deceived.

A lot of stuff could be resolved if we were honest.

Great post. God bless

 

[Macabeus]

There are some unusual believers who deny either repentance is needed, turning from sin, feeling
sorrow for sin, dedication to walk in love and doing righteous actions, or that life change is a demonstration
of a real spiritual change. I always wonder at this, because for me Jesus is everything and to not follow Him
and change, is to deny what He is. A thief stops stealing, the sexually immoral stops being sexually immoral,
slanderers stop slanderering, liars stop lying etc. If this does not take place, then no encounter has taken place.

Yes, repentance and life change are a result of the HOLY SPIRIT's work in our conversion.

Repentance is wrought in the heart by the Spirit, and is a change of mind (mind in the bible is slightly different than our modern understanding of "mind") leading to a change in direction, which equals life change. Repentance and heart change is the work of God in a believer's heart, and lead to a life change, which is a fruit of the gift of repentance that God GRANTS us.

 

[Macabeus]

There are some unusual believers who deny either repentance is needed, turning from sin, feeling
sorrow for sin, dedication to walk in love and doing righteous actions, or that life change is a demonstration
of a real spiritual change. I always wonder at this, because for me Jesus is everything and to not follow Him
and change, is to deny what He is. A thief stops stealing, the sexually immoral stops being sexually immoral,
slanderers stop slanderering, liars stop lying etc. If this does not take place, then no encounter has taken place.

Yes. I am not sure if anyone does it here, but I have heard it taught that teaching the necessity of repentance in conversion is teaching a "works salvation", and they are incorrect. Jesus taught "repent and believe the Gospel", Paul taught "repentance towards God and faith towards Jesus", etc.

Repentance is wrought in the heart by the Spirit of God who convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgement, and leads to a change of mind which in turn leads to a change in direction in those that are instructed therein.

Jesus said "everyone who has been taught of God comes to me..."

 

[theanointedwinner]

God hate sin, but he doesn't want anyone to leave him, because God is love

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Brothers and sisters in Christ.

Intimacy, needing support and working through how we feel sounds impossible vulnerability which
will result in failure and hurt, yet in Christ, as a body we can listen, support and help. Often in the
speaking comes relief.

People fear disappointment, and hurt, yet in truth, by reaching out and sharing one finds in Jesus
healing and understanding, support and help.

1 Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers,
2 older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.
3 Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need.
1 Tim 5

When one starts to actually get to this place, it becomes more difficult, because conflict will occur, and
need, and to have to put boundaries and describe what can and cannot happen. And taking the risk challenges
one as to what we really care about, and how much do we want from others. I found even believing people
might like me difficult, and I would rather avoid such an interaction, in case I got hurt or showed too much
emotion.

 

[theanointedwinner]

I wondered when the GRIEF would end.

Did you still trust in 1 Cor 10:13 at that time?

 

[theanointedwinner]

What can we learn from VCO?

guess what those who present themselves as TEACHABLE are? A disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ @VCO

Let's put it this way, the Holy Spirit enters your Heart, before you can finish the Thought, "I want Jesus as my LORD and Master". ~VCO

Believing is a work of the HOLY SPIRIT ~VCO

ANY TIME YOU THINK YOU FOUND A CONTRADICTION, YOU PERSONALLY HAVE MADE AN ERROR IN INTERPRETATION OF ONE OR BOTH VERSES. YOU HAVE TO SEARCH FOR AN ALTERNATIVE INTERPRETATION THAT FITS BOTH VERSES. @VCO

Children of the devil never practice righteousness ~VCO

The rest will be paraphrased

God will help you on the first step of sanctification, the rest will get easier and easier as you practice righteousness

Revelation 3:20 can always be applied to deeper relationship with God

More trust = more growth

Trust in God can help get you through circumstances

And don't worry (from Matthew 6)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Where is the closed door?

Jesus seems to me to be saying in Him there are no closed doors, just getting to know the will of God.
I know I only see what is immediately in front of me and can easily get it wrong.
I can think this is how things are, and I want to go there, but then the Lord turns me around, teaches
me and shows me somewhere else and something much better.

How do I connect with anyone and what is the next step?
Only if I am open and listening, and prepared to move in different ways.

So we know our habits and how we react and our areas of weakness. But these can change and our
balances and interactions grow in new ways. And we have the Holy Spirit, we have the Lord, and we
have love working in us. Where is the downside?

So I ask how did Jesus walk? Oh you cannot ever know because the gap is so big it is impossible
to even see. But until you see you will never know, and once you see, you might discover Jesus
is calling you to walk with Him, yoked to Him, learning and growing as you do.
A baby can never walk, run, talk, read, write, but one day they will, but if you said they should give
up because it is impossible for a baby, would you be a bad parent or being truthful.
A baby cannot do these things, but you will grow and mature and then you will be able to, but you
will be something different. The spiritual walk is no different, but you would not imagine this is
true speaking to some who have never left the nursery.