Not By Works

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Not even close to his being the Antichrist. HILLS are symbolism for Countries, so is HORNS. Take Three from the origninal 10, and it is SEVEN COUNTRIES of the final form of Confederacy. So it does not even have to be ROME, it could every bit as easily be BRUSSELS, that is the city that rules the revival of the Roman Empire.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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John MacArthur teaches false doctrine....but aside from that sanctification is not a life long process.

And aside from that, one does not look to being more and more sinless for assurance of salvation like MacArthur teaches.

This is assurance.....

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

So how much do you ACTUALLY know about Dr. John MacArthur. I suspect NONE AT ALL, and therefore all of it came from the FALSE INFO, put out by the Charismatic side of the fence. I know quite a BIT about Dr. John MacArthur, and his TEACHINGS. I listen to his GRACE TO YOU radio program quite a few years. I was literally discipled by him. I have heard every sermon he has recorded between 1978 and 1989, PLUS several hours of SERMONS earlier than that. AND via TAPE Ministry, I have listened to ALL OF THEM at least 4 Times, and every sermon was an hour in length. He is considered the finest Conservative Evangelical Pastor in the LAND, by MOST Conservative Evangelicals. He is also President of the Master's Bible College and the Master's Seminary.

He are some of the men that had a Part in my discipleship.

These Bible teachers that have had the most influence on my spiritual growth, are:


Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - http://www.firstredeemer.org/
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - http://changedlives.org/WHY
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/

As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.


Now are you going to perpetrate Character Assassination on those others TOO, without ANY FIRST HAND INFORMATION, and only Tainted Opinions about him. For your information, those other Pastors would agree with almost everything that Dr. John MacArthur teaches. Personally I have a suspicion the Book that he Published - The CHARISMATICS, is the real rub. Yes I agree with that too.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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I agree. John says in 2 John that many deceivers who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. I believe that they are those who says that WORKS of any sort such as OBEDIENCE TO GOD is not a part of salvation or not essential or necessary.

God sent His only begotten Son into the world as the WORD that became flesh, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. This is to demonstrate His own love for us; that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Why would God have to send Jesus Christ if we can be saved by FAITH alone? Does the prophets and God's people from the beginning have no faith? I'm sure they have. If their FAITH ALONE can save them then why did Jesus still have to come and die for us? One reason is to set them (those who were called) free from the sins committed under the first covenant and to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.

Another reason to consider is that the Holy Spirit which would empower and enable those included in the body of Christ to do the will of God will not come unless He goes away. It should be clear that the life that Jesus lived here on earth should set an example for Christians on how to live as He did and thereby receive the promised eternal life and in order that we may also share in His glory that He prepared in advance for the objects of His Mercy.

Who therefore is John referring to as deceivers and antichrists? Are they those who teach that we should WALK as Jesus did, to WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS or to WALK IN LOVE. Those who teach about purity and holiness or is it those who say that no one can obey God's laws and commands and therefore Faith alone saves without the addition of any works including obedience to God.

It should be clear now that Jesus came in the flesh that we may know that man can do everything He did and become like Him and be there also where He is right now because WITH GOD, nothing is impossible. So let us not be deceived by those who say that faith alone saves and does not acknowledge that Christ came in the flesh by not acknowledging His life in submission, love and obedience to God's will.

FAITH is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. Jesus came in the flesh to make evident the things of God and His words fulfilled, to give us hope and to make our hope sure.

FAITH comes from hearing the message and without Jesus coming in the flesh, no message would ever come to us GENTILES and there will be no MERCY and GRACE reaching us. And what is the message that we have heard from the beginning? It is to love God by loving one another.

2 John 1:5-6
And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Those who do not acknowledge this LOVE which is to WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS does not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

2 John 1:7-11
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
It is good that you agree good works are necessary. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/02/24/give-to-the-poor-and-do-good-works/
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
It is in the gospels. They are also called phylacteries, which the gospels mentions the Pharisees wearing, which they made wide, while also making their tzitzit long.
I've known many messianic and folks in the Jews for Jesus movement but I've never seen one before. If Levitical law was set aside, why are you wearing one?
 
Jun 4, 2019
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I've known many messianic and folks in the Jews for Jesus movement but I've never seen one before. If Levitical law was set aside, why are you wearing one?
The Torah has not been abolished, although the Levitical priesthood was indeed replaced by the priesthood of the Messiah.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The Torah has not been abolished, although the Levitical priesthood was indeed replaced by the priesthood of the Messiah.
Not abolished, amended by the new testament. Hebrews 10:1&2
1 For the law, which has but the shadow of good things to come, and not the real things themselves, can never, with the sacrifices that the priests offer year by year continually, make those who come to it perfect. 2 For would not then those sacrifices have ceased to be offered, because the offerers, once purged, would have had no more conscience of sins?
(NMB)
3 But in those sacrifices, mention is made of sins every year.4 For it is impossible that the blood of oxen and of goats should take away sins.
Hebrews 10:8-10 New Matthew Bible (NMB)

8 Above – when he said sacrifice and offering, and burnt sacrifices and sin-offerings you would not have, neither have accepted (which yet are offered according to the law), 9 and then said, Lo, I come to do your will, O God – he takes away the first in order to establish the latter. 10 In accordance with this God’s will, we are sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all.

This was not past tense. It is forever.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The new testament is still useful for learning and teaching especially history, humility and morality. And I am opposed to graven, carved or cast images within the sanctuary including crosses but if Jesus can overlook those things for mercy's sake, so can I!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
I am not of Hebrew ancestry and since the non Christian Hebrew inheritance was passed on to us Christians why then should we Gentiles follow Hebrew laws? Was not Paul our Apostle?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
So how much do you ACTUALLY know about Dr. John MacArthur. I suspect NONE AT ALL,
I read everyone of his books, until a tossed them all in the garbage....... and a bunch of the other ones you listed too.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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biblehub.com
Not even close to his being the Antichrist. HILLS are symbolism for Countries, so is HORNS. Take Three from the origninal 10, and it is SEVEN COUNTRIES of the final form of Confederacy. So it does not even have to be ROME, it could every bit as easily be BRUSSELS, that is the city that rules the revival of the Roman Empire.


Sorry, but I've read your posts, you are pretty out there as far as what is, and what will be according to the Scriptures.

Here's a small list of some of the men that you are in disagreement with.......

John Calvin
Martin Luther
Thomas Cranmer
Roger Williams
Cotton Mather
John Wesley
William Tyndale
John Wycliffe
John Bunyan
Sir Isaac Newton
Johnathan Edwards
Charles Spurgeon
J.C. Ryle
Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones
And a long list of others.

You keep listening to your cassette tapes, and I'll keep listening to the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:5-12

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
Wow those guys talk slower than I type. As a former Catholic I know quite well how they replaced faith the lord, with dogmatic ritualism. It appalls me and elevating a man like any pope to a demi god is blasphemous. But I don't see how the pope or RCC has the financial or military clout to take over the majority of the world. There have been many antichrists but The Antichrist will have learned by Satin not to make the same mistakes.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
The Old testament is still useful for learning and teaching especially history, humility and morality. And I am opposed to graven, carved or cast images within the sanctuary including crosses but if Jesus can overlook those things for mercy's sake, so can I!
Typo; correction in purple Oops!
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,236
3,669
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So how much do you ACTUALLY know about Dr. John MacArthur. I suspect NONE AT ALL, and therefore all of it came from the FALSE INFO, put out by the Charismatic side of the fence. I know quite a BIT about Dr. John MacArthur, and his TEACHINGS. I listen to his GRACE TO YOU radio program quite a few years. I was literally discipled by him. I have heard every sermon he has recorded between 1978 and 1989, PLUS several hours of SERMONS earlier than that. AND via TAPE Ministry, I have listened to ALL OF THEM at least 4 Times, and every sermon was an hour in length. He is considered the finest Conservative Evangelical Pastor in the LAND, by MOST Conservative Evangelicals. He is also President of the Master's Bible College and the Master's Seminary.

He are some of the men that had a Part in my discipleship.

These Bible teachers that have had the most influence on my spiritual growth, are:


Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - http://www.firstredeemer.org/
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - http://changedlives.org/WHY
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/

As well as the Pastors of Churches that I attended; Pastor Neil Berry and Pastor Gordan Broadbent especially.


Now are you going to perpetrate Character Assassination on those others TOO, without ANY FIRST HAND INFORMATION, and only Tainted Opinions about him. For your information, those other Pastors would agree with almost everything that Dr. John MacArthur teaches. Personally I have a suspicion the Book that he Published - The CHARISMATICS, is the real rub. Yes I agree with that too.
John MacArthur has helped me tremendously in my walk with Christ...May God bless him and use him for many more years...
I love the way he teaches verse by verse...xox...
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,470
113
Anaheim, Cali.
My original Christian fellowship was with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa. I was publicly re-baptized by them, by emersion in public lagoon in Long Beach California. Unfortunately the nearest one from here is 90+ miles away. I only bring this up because I seldom make a doctrinal stance or align myself with more popular denominations besides Mennonites or the Salvation Army. Here is our doctrinal stance:

Statement of Faith

The Calvary Chapel Church has been formed as a fellowship of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Our supreme desire is to know Christ and be conformed into His image by the power of the Holy Spirit. We are not a denominational church, nor are we opposed to denominations as such, only their over-emphasis of doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the body of Christ. We believe that the only true basis of Christian fellowship is His (Agape) love, which is greater than any differences we possess and without which we have no right to claim ourselves Christians.


We believe that there is one living and true God, eternally existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, equal in power and glory; that this triune God created all, upholds all, and governs all.


We Believe God the Father, an infinite, personal Spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power, and love; that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men, that He hears and answers prayer; and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ.


We believe In Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, God incarnate, conceived by the Holy Spirit. We Believe in His virgin birth, sinless life, miracles, and teachings, His substitutionary atoning death, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, perpetual intercession for His people, and personal, visible return to earth.

We Believe In the Holy Spirit who came forth from the Father and Son to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify, and empower for ministry all who believe in Jesus Christ; we believe the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Jesus Christ and that He is an abiding Helper, Teacher, and Guide. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit, unchanged since the book of Acts.


We Believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired without error in the original manuscripts, and the infallible rule of faith and practice.


We Believe that all people are sinners by nature and choice, and therefore, under condemnation, that God regenerates by the Holy Spirit to those who repent of their sins and confess Jesus Christ as Lord.

We Believe in the universal Church, the living spiritual body, of which Christ is the Head and all regenerated persons are members.


We Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ committed two Ordinances to the Church:
  1. Baptism
  2. The Lord's Supper

We practice baptism by immersion and communion open to all believers.


We Believe in the personal, visible, future Return of Christ to the earth and the establishment of his kingdom, in the resurrection of the body, the final judgment, and eternal blessing of the righteous and endless suffering of the wicked.

And here's what we are all about;

As a non-denominational fellowship, we are asked that question often. In light of all the "various winds of doctrine" that are blowing about today, it is a valid one. Due to our non-traditional approach to worship and ministry in many areas, answering that question is not always as simple as it might seem.

We Believe worship of God should be Spiritual. Therefore: We remain flexible and yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit to direct our worship services.

We Believe worship of God should be Inspirational. Therefore: We give a great place to music in our worship. Our worship is contemporary and orderful.

We Believe worship of God should be Intelligent. Therefore: Our services are designed with great emphasis upon teaching the whole counsel of the Word of God verse by verse, that He might instruct us how He would be worshipped.

We Believe worship of God is Fruitful. Therefore: We look for His love in our lives as the supreme manifestation that we have truly been worshipping Him. We strongly believe that the purpose of Calvary Chapel of OKC through the pastor and teachers is summed up in "for the perfecting of the saints" (Eph. 4:12).

Dress Code - Come as you feel most comfortable (coat/tie, jeans, t-shirts, flip-flops or sandals, etc.). We desire to de-emphasize this aspect of Sunday worship. Please don't dress immodestly.

Music/Worship - Contemporary praise and worship with an occasional old hymn.

Please bring your Bible - Since we teach book-by-book, verse-by-verse, we want you to read God's Word for yourself (Acts 17:11) - don't just take our word for it! If you don't have a Bible to bring, come anyway - we have some you can use.


 
Dec 27, 2018
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No, your point is that good works are not "required", which in subtle ways you are rejecting. But, perhaps I might be mistaken about you, so, let us clarify your true position and that we are both in agreement to one thing, "good works are required to inherit the kingdom of God", what say you, yay or nay? A simple yes or no answer will suffice, then we can move on to more intelligent conversation.
Everyone here knows that I do not say or believe that good works are not required. I have been buffetted up one side and down another for constantly affirming that bearing fruit, being obedient to the commands of God, loving neighbor, etc...that these things are all descriptive of those who have truly been born of God.