Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

God bless you

Know what Paul means by these two verses

To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
1 cor 9:21

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
gal 6:2

And if you can accept someones faith in the cross of Christ for the forgiveness
of their sins and that they walk in fellowship with the Holy Spirit, then we
have a beginning.

Else there is nothing left to share, because it just becomes personal abuse.
After over 1.5 years of this, it is not exactly unexpected or new.

And funnily people cannot believe my patience, but then being a father who
sets boundaries I do not break, it is not that difficult. Children will be children
even in their 50's. And I always have hope for anyone, because that is the
way of love.

See Peter. this is why you get so much flack. It is always about you. What you do, How holy you are. Now we see how patient you are (SMH)

You do not practice what you preach peter. You think people are trying to attack you, so you can't hear a word we say. People are not trying to hurt you peter. they are tryign to help you.

But you have to help yourself. And the first step would be to maybe try some humility and stop puffing yourself up so much? And maybe open up a little and try to understand what people are saying?

I know it is hard peter. I feel your pain. Like I said, been there..

 

[Ariel82]

Word of Faith preachers are false teachers....we dont need your video to tell us that Peterjens..,it is just another straw man to avoid talking to real people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus loves me because He died for me upon the cross.

That is all I need, forever.

If this was true, Then you would have complete security in christ, And you would join us unstead of decaring us guilty of committing idolatry because we trust in Christ and our status of bing IN HIM,

Why? Because his death on the cross would be all you ever needed, and there is nothing you could lose, because the cross will always be there.

Again Peter. Open up. See what your saying, see what people are trying to show you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Word of Faith preachers are false teachers....we dont need your video to tell us that Peterjens..,it is just another straw man to avoid talking to real people.

He is struck on that strawman started by a few people over a year ago, some of who are no longer here. He can not seem to let that go. seems to be his mission.

And of course everyone who disagrees with him , must follow in that religion.. Of course I think we can all find similarities if we look at it.. so it is silly to put everyone under one status, other than the one states of being in christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Ariel, the problem with your propositions is everything in life is a strawman.

Everything we experience is actually a construct of our brains. We only experience anything
because our brains present it to us. Sadly empathy is only our brains creating the emotion
in us that we believe is going through another. The closer to reality this is the better our
communications progress.

So what you are saying to me is your straw men do not agree with mine. Now I can accept
that, but that is why it is always beneficial to share them. It is how we progress and grow in
life.

I like your line "I am on Gods side", it sounds somewhat pompous.

All the parties believe this, which is ironic, but is the obviously assumed position of all.

Paul said this about deeds of darkness
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.
Eph 5:11-13

Wait...,if you truly believe "everything in this life is a straw man"


Does that mean you have a straw man of God?

This also is a false premise:

Everything we experience is actually a construct of our brains. We only experience anything
because our brains present it to us

Sometimes we experience things our mind doesn't construct. Who we are is more than our mind. We have a body,we have a soul.

Reality is more than a mental construct.

 

[PeterJens]

Word of Faith preachers are false teachers....we dont need your video to tell us that Peterjens..,it is just another straw man to avoid talking to real people.

Ariel - ?????? You are so highly defended you do not even see it yourself.
You admitted you take Gods side, rising above what is going on.
You have said I do not communicate, but here I am communicating.

And the video was interesting, because it introduces various important points.

But anyway, God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

Wait...,if you truly believe "everything in this life is a straw man"
Does that mean you have a straw man of God?

We all do.

But unfortunately my dear sister, unless you can adapt your thinking
beyond your own convictions and just accept our limitations, which is
what I am addressing, there is no point in this going further.

God bless you.

 

[Ariel82]

What does that preacher in the video have to do with the beliefs of people on this thread?

Or is it another indirect way of accusing people of being false teachers?

 

[Ariel82]

I don't construct a God to worship Peterjens.

I recognize that God is real and beyond my understanding. He is Lord and Savior. He is king of kings, Prince of Peace.

But you are right it is useless to continue this conversation.

 

[PeterJens]

Wait...,if you truly believe "everything in this life is a straw man"
Does that mean you have a straw man of God?
This also is a false premise:
Sometimes we experience things our mind doesn't construct. Who we are is more than our mind. We have a body,we have a soul.
Reality is more than a mental construct.

I wish this was so. All we experience from the day we are conceived to the day we die
is a construct of our brains to ourselves. It is why philosphy proved that everything is
an assumption of this reality, and nothing is absolutely true, it is always an assumption.

Outside us truth can exist, but we only experience our brains construct of it.
It is why though we want certainty we have to settle for compromise and risk.

One management training exercise took trainees and set them a task which they
needed the next morning to present. Some stayed up the whole night to come
with a solution, but the lesson was, you have to give up when you cannot win.
Failure can be the right winning strategy. Even in faith this is true. Some realities
we will only know when we meet Christ face to face. Amen, because if I knew
too much I would be seriously upset.

Listen to the prophets. God judge Israel. Ok. No Lord not with the babylonians
they are far worse, there must be another way.

So I am sorry it is bad news, the good news is Jesus loves us beyond our wildest
imaginations, except walking in this we will be changed, which is the whole point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[video=youtube;fLD8s2lEJKE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLD8s2lEJKE&t=11s[/video]

This guy is a typical preacher of a type of fellowship to which many do belong, and
express these points of view. What was interesting was the final conclusion this
pastor came to after 10 years of ministry. It was all about self and his dreams, that
God never answered or responded to, and while he condemned the other denominations
it was his ministry that was wrong and deluded.

Much applies to position people take here, and is eye openning though I am sure many
will not bother, lol.

I listened to 3 minutes of this, Not once is anything mentioned about salvation and works.

You posted this in the wrong thread peter. It has nothing to do with this thread or the topic.

Your war against a group of people have tainted your ability to reason.

 

[PeterJens]

I don't construct a God to worship Peterjens.

I recognize that God is real and beyond my understanding. He is Lord and Savior. He is king of kings, Prince of Peace.

But you are right it is useless to continue this conversation.

Ariel - through reading the word you learn what Christ and God are like.
In your mind and heart you begin to understand His will and desires.

This is part of a relationship which becomes knowledge and emotional history.
It is why I know Jesus and His nature, and what He would say to you.
He loves you and desires the best in your life, and desires that you know His
assurance and care, Amen.

And for communication we all need love, and respect.
As brothers and sisters in Christ I assume this, but clearly for some it is missing.

God bless you, glory to Christ and thanks be to God that He died to save us, Amen.

 

[limey410]

Well I instantly had assurance the moment I was saved. I knew I had eternal life, that all my sins had been forgiven. This was before I even opened up a bible for the first time. When you're born of the Spirit, you know.

So when I hear someone state that they have no assurance *I conclude* that either (a) they don't actually have the Holy Spirit (because they would know) or (b) they once had this assurance, but in the years since they've been listening too much to teachers and as a result they now have doubts.

But God knew that some would have doubts, which is why the bible is full of scriptures to reassure us...


1 John 5:11-15: And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

Yes and Amen, The Holy Spirit is the first to testify to this truth.

Imagine if when you got saved the Holy Spirit said "YES you're MINE, you now belong to me, Satan has lost, your victory is in me, I will never leave you, I will complete the work I am starting...........but there are some things............ and if you can't pull em off....well....never mind off to hell you go, syonara!!".

That would be like every false promise the world offers us.

Every contract that can and is broken, every word spoken that once believed and found to be lie.

To me these folks are ascribing worldly attributes to the Creator of the Universe, minimizing what He has done for us. Trivializing the magnitude of our sin, which illuminates the magnificence of His sacrifice.

Once the Holy Spirit has testified the truth, the word of God takes on new meaning.

I was saved for 12 years and stuck in religious mode until 7 months ago when the truth was finally revealed.
When I started to ask questions about the lies I was being taught, by folks that want to Covenant mash, and hold on to the Law as their way of life. Questions that were nagging in my Spirit for years.

Someone came along and answered those questions, and when they made sense, I sat down and read the word more, studied the word more, enjoyed the word and understood much more of the word, I understood finally what it meant when people would tell me the His word brings life.
What I am trying to say is when we first get saved, we are excited, joyful and happy, and then over time we are dragged down by lies and dogma.
If we only listened to God and kept believing in what He first tells us then years, maybe decades would not be wasted wandering the wilderness, not testifying to His goodness and mercy and grace, because we are told that really isn't good enough.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes and Amen, The Holy Spirit is the first to testify to this truth.

Imagine if when you got saved the Holy Spirit said "YES you're MINE, you now belong to me, Satan has lost, your victory is in me, I will never leave you, I will complete the work I am starting...........but there are some things............ and if you can't pull em off....well....never mind off to hell you go, syonara!!".

That would be like every false promise the world offers us.

Every contract that can and is broken, every word spoken that once believed and found to be lie.

To me these folks are ascribing worldly attributes to the Creator of the Universe, minimizing what He has done for us. Trivializing the magnitude of our sin, which illuminates the magnificence of His sacrifice.

Once the Holy Spirit has testified the truth, the word of God takes on new meaning.

I was saved for 12 years and stuck in religious mode until 7 months ago when the truth was finally revealed.
When I started to ask questions about the lies I was being taught, by folks that want to Covenant mash, and hold on to the Law as their way of life. Questions that were nagging in my Spirit for years.

Someone came along and answered those questions, and when they made sense, I sat down and read the word more, studied the word more, enjoyed the word and understood much more of the word, I understood finally what it meant when people would tell me the His word brings life.
What I am trying to say is when we first get saved, we are excited, joyful and happy, and then over time we are dragged down by lies and dogma.
If we only listened to God and kept believing in what He first tells us then years, maybe decades would not be wasted wandering the wilderness, not testifying to His goodness and mercy and grace, because we are told that really isn't good enough.

Amen!! It seems we have similar paths of being broken from religion. and finally seeing God for who he is, not what the world wants us to think he is.

And amen, The world says Gods love must be earned, All the major religions teach this, Judaism, Islam, Yes, even religious christianity.

That proves to me it is satanic. He took one basic root principle (God will only love you if you live up to some standard) put a few flavors in it, and it has taken hold and kept billions from Seeing the true God of heaven,

Amen bro, Worth a rep. but I have to spread some around..

 

[Ariel82]

Security in Christ is one of the marks of maturity in Christ...though not the only one...being part of the Body and showing God's love to others is another testament of true maturity in Christ.

Ephesians 4
13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,e to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

 

[PeterJens]

If you listen carefully to the Lord your God and do what is right in his eyes,
if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians,
for I am the Lord,
who heals you.
Exodus 15:26

 

[PeterJens]

let us love one another,
for love comes from God.
Everyone who loves has been born of God
and knows God.
1 John 4:7

 

[Ariel82]

Hebrews 8

But as it is, Christb has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

8For he finds fault with them when he says:c

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah,
9not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
For they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:

I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”

13In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you listen carefully to the Lord your God and do what is right in his eyes,
if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians,
for I am the Lord,
who heals you.
Exodus 15:26

If I can't have heaven, Having a disease is the east of my worries.

God saved them from slavery, They did not save themselves. Many of them did not have all th eblessings God wanted to give them, But they were still saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Security in Christ is one of the marks of maturity in Christ...though not the only one...being part of the Body and showing God's love to others is another testament of true maturity in Christ.

Ephesians 4
13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,e to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

amen, the first few chapters of ephesians were written to show us the security we have in christ.