Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,701
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,701
gb9 said:
sure you have. undergrace proved you wrong, you could not refute her, so you jumped on some random thing doc said as a cover/distraction.

your games are not as clever as you think they are, just like your theology is legalism , if you say so or not.
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So where did UnderGrace prove me wrong?

Did she prove my statement wrong that Christ is our Lord, BECAUSE we are His purchased possession?

So you do not believe that you were given by the Father to Christ, or that you are bought with a price, or that you are no longer your own (UnderGrace denied that this last one was even in the Bible). If all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios. If you don't know Greek, kurios is LORD.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#101,702
Jan 18, 2011
12,390
6,733
113
#101,702
Macabeus said:
Sorry, but building an army of strawman and then burning them is not proving a person wrong. And UnderGrace never even addressed my position, she only addressed her faulty understanding of it.
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my issue with the church of Nazarene and f.h.s. ( peterjens ) has 0 to do with you, and him and I made peace and moved on. ( something I hoped, but not trusted , that we did before your latest tirade over being proved wrong),

it's all the same " you are not reading my posts, you are not understanding my posts, you are misrepresenting what I said "..........

excuses and whining .


I think I might just put you on ignore , as we say down here in the south, till ye get done throwing your hissy fit
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,703
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,703
gb9 said:
my issue with the church of Nazarene and f.h.s. ( peterjens ) has 0 to do with you, and him and I made peace and moved on. ( something I hoped, but not trusted , that we did before your latest tirade over being proved wrong),

it's all the same " you are not reading my posts, you are not understanding my posts, you are misrepresenting what I said "..........

excuses and whining .


I think I might just put you on ignore , as we say down here in the south, till ye get done throwing your hissy fit
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UMM...sorry, but you said something about UnderGrace proving me wrong,without specifying wherein I was proven wrong, and i am not throwing tantrums, I am stating facts. Nothing I am saying compares to the tantrums that DC throws. Look at his latest posts addressed to me

We were at peace until you started attacking me again for, GASP, disagreeing with DC.

And you are a proven misrepresenter of other people's position. For example, you called me a fruit inspecter when I never inspected ANYONE"S FRUIT. Blatant misrepresentation.

So where did UnderGrace prove me wrong? Did she prove my statement wrong that Christ is our Lord, BECAUSE we are His purchased possession?

So you do not believe that you were given by the Father to Christ, or that you are bought with a price, or that you are no longer your own (UnderGrace denied that this last one was even in the Bible). If all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios. If you don't know Greek, kurios is LORD.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,704
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,704
gb9 said:
my issue with the church of Nazarene and f.h.s. ( peterjens ) has 0 to do with you, and him and I made peace and moved on. ( something I hoped, but not trusted , that we did before your latest tirade over being proved wrong),

it's all the same " you are not reading my posts, you are not understanding my posts, you are misrepresenting what I said "..........

excuses and whining .


I think I might just put you on ignore , as we say down here in the south, till ye get done throwing your hissy fit
Click to expand...
OOOHHHH, the dreaded "ignore". Otherwise known as "safe space" where you can be safe from anyone examining your position.

You go to your safe space with DC and EG and everyone else who can't handle disagreement, and you'll be nice and safe from anyone disagreeing with you, Geebee.

And BTW, you throw tantrums by calling people names, like legalist, all the time. You're throwing a tantrum right now, if we go by your definition
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,705
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,705
I don't like what Mac is saying, so I am going to run off to my safe space and tell him about it as I'm doing it.

I'm crushed, GB9 :rolleyes:
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,706
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,706
IF you are saved,

a. you were given by the Father to Christ,

b. you are bought with a price,

c. you are no longer your own

And if all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios. And in case you didn't know it, kurios is LORD.

If you don't like what I just said, feel free to put me on ignore and go to the safe space with GB9, DC, EG, and everyone else who wants to be saved and autonomous at the same time.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,707
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,707
a. you were given by the Father to Christ,

b. you are bought with a price,

c. you are no longer your own

And if all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios. And in case you didn't know it, kurios is LORD.

If the Lordship of Christ is optional, then it follows that in your view, autonomy (being your own Lord) is an option. That is not what Jesus, Paul, John, or any faithful of God taught.

Maybe a Christian doesn't know about the absolute SOVEREIGNTY of Jesus over their life, but if they have the Spirit and a Bible, it won't be long until they find out.

So making Christ Lord does not make you saved, being saved MAKES CHRIST YOUR LORD.

Just like the Bible teaches.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,708
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,708
gb9 said:
the only thing you properly document is how an adult throws a childish temper tantrum every time you get proved wrong.
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I have not thrown any temper tantrums. Your last few posts to me, by your definition, can be defined as temper tantrums (if my posts are temper tantrums, your posts are too, calling people names, etc)
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,709
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,709
dcontroversal said:
Listen Ralph.......works have no bearing on gaining, keeping or maintaining Salvation....Jesus was born, lived and died under the law which ratified the NEW Covenant....try context, understanding and being honest with the truth.......
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Nope, not anymore than smoke has any bearing on a forest fire starting. But smoke will be present where there is a forest fire nontheless, won't it?

Grace produces the fire (salvation), the fire (salvation) produces the smoke (fruit and work). No doubt about it.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,710
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,710
UnderGrace said:
I was laughing at the fact that you went back to a verse that has been a source of disagreement....lighten up Mr. M. is just seemed a little ironic :D
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a. you were given by the Father to Christ,

b. you are bought with a price,

c. you are no longer your own

And if all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios.

Making Christ Lord does not make you saved, being saved MAKES CHRIST YOUR LORD.

Can we agree on this, at least?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,711
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#101,711
Macabeus said:
IF you are saved,

a. you were given by the Father to Christ,

b. you are bought with a price,

c. you are no longer your own

And if all of these things are true, then you are a doulos, and Christ is your kurios. And in case you didn't know it, kurios is LORD.

If you don't like what I just said, feel free to put me on ignore and go to the safe space with GB9, DC, EG, and everyone else who wants to be saved and autonomous at the same time.
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You really should go to the nearest Walmart and buy some depends, bottles and a binki or two.........for not caring you sure go on and on and on and on like a whine bag.............
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,712
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,712
dcontroversal said:
No it wasn't deceiver.......I made a plain and clear blanket statement about what JESUS, PAUL and the bible teaches....YOU took it and embellished it to accuse me of applying it to JOHN....
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UMM...what I remember is saying that John was not talking about that in the text we were discussion, and you said "you have no idea, pal...this is why people have you on ignore, etc. " That sounds like an affirmation the antithesis of what I said.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,713
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,713
dcontroversal said:
You really should go to the nearest Walmart and buy some depends, bottles and a binki or two.........for not caring you sure go on and on and on and on like a whine bag.............
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Are you throwing tantrums again, DC?

Oh, I'm sorry that post 101,710 was so offensive to you. What kind of person takes offense at a post like 101,710? :confused:

If you disagree with my post, you can say so. You don't have to resort to ad hominem, like YOU ALWAYS DO. ;)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,714
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#101,714
Macabeus said:
Nope, not anymore than smoke has any bearing on a forest fire starting. But smoke will be present where there is a forest fire nontheless, won't it?

Grace produces the fire (salvation), the fire (salvation) produces the smoke (fruit and work). No doubt about it.
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Take it up with GOD.....your faith PLUS MUST HAVE blather is contrary to scripture and exactly why you peddle error........even though you portray yourself as a teacher of truth......the following ONE verse alone proves your dogma false.....and you obviously cannot read or fail to understand the bolded in the following verse.....or maybe your religion does not allow you to entertain the truth............probably all three in your particular case.........

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,715
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,715
dcontroversal said:
Take it up with GOD.....your faith PLUS MUST HAVE blather is contrary to scripture and exactly why you peddle error........even though you portray yourself as a teacher of truth......the following ONE verse alone proves your dogma false.....and you obviously cannot read or fail to understand the bolded in the following verse.....or maybe your religion does not allow you to entertain the truth............probably all three in your particular case.........

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
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Like I said, WORKS FOLLOW SALVATION

Did you happen to miss that? The crux of the entire post?

Justified by faith ALONE, works follow out of love and gratitude

Just like fire produces smoke

Your post is a textbook example of what GB9 calls being proved wrong. You say exactly what I said, and then accuse me of not saying it. :LOL:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#101,716
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#101,716
Macabeus said:
Like I said, WORKS FOLLOW SALVATION

Did you happen to miss that? The crux of the entire post?

Justified by faith ALONE, works follow out of love and gratitude

Just like fire produces smoke

Your post is a textbook example of what GB9 calls being proved wrong. You say exactly what I said, and then accuse me of not saying it. :LOL:
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Did you miss the part about the one that DID NOT WORK or just ignoring it because it does not fit your MUST follow rigmarole?

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

NOTE ----> DOES NOT WORK <--what tense is that
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,717
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,717
dcontroversal said:
Take it up with GOD.....your faith PLUS MUST HAVE blather is contrary to scripture and exactly why you peddle error........even though you portray yourself as a teacher of truth......the following ONE verse alone proves your dogma false.....and you obviously cannot read or fail to understand the bolded in the following verse.....or maybe your religion does not allow you to entertain the truth............probably all three in your particular case.........

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Click to expand...
SO I agree with you, and you say I am peddling error. I guess that means you are too.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,718
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,718
dcontroversal said:
Did you miss the part about the one that DID NOT WORK or just ignoring it because it does not fit your MUST follow rigmarole?

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Click to expand...
so you are not justified if works of love and gratitude (not for salvation, but because of salvation) follow salvation?

I thought Jesus gave Himself for us to redeem us as a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Is that in YOUR Bible?

So are we God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them?

Salvation first, works follow.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,719
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,719
Macabeus said:
so you are not justified if works of love and gratitude (not for salvation, but because of salvation) follow salvation?

I thought Jesus gave Himself for us to redeem us as a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Is that in YOUR Bible?

So are we God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them?

Salvation first, works follow.
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The Bible says "we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works", (in other words, salvation first, works follow), I agree with it, and you call me a peddler of error. o_O
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#101,720
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#101,720
UnderGrace said:
If they do not follow is the person still saved?
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What if a person completely ignores Ephesians 2:10 and Titus 2:11-15 and completely disregards God's will and what He has FOREORDAINED for that person? Well, to be honest, I never considered that a question worthy of a Christian to ask. We should not focus on how much we can disobey and still be saved, we should focus on God's purpose for us in love

Your question completely misses the purpose of Grace. See Titus 2:11-15. "Grace has appeared TEACHING US..."

If grace is not teaching a person, then they do not know Grace. 1 Timothy 2:12 verifies it

Salvation first, the rest follows, like fire follows smoke.
 
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