Not By Works

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gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,938
4,695
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Where did you see that bro? Did I miss something?
" forth, we do good so we be assured our right standing before God.....'


if one has to do good to assure good standing, then that ( to me ) says works salvationism,
of course believers should be doing good works, but if we have to do them to maintain anything then we are saving ourselves.
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,601
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" forth, we do good so we be assured our right standing before God.....'


if one has to do good to assure good standing, then that ( to me ) says works salvationism,
of course believers should be doing good works, but if we have to do them to maintain anything then we are saving ourselves.
Good catch, I somehow missed it, I just removed my like..Except for that I did agree with what she said,
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,938
4,695
113
Good catch, I somehow missed it, I just removed my like..Except for that I did agree with what she said,
yes, many have sound theology, but they find a way to interject self, doing to maintain, and ( sadly ) this undercuts all their good theology.
 

Vespera

Junior Member
Jan 11, 2015
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Can you please explain this? If we have to do good to assure our right standing, Is this not legalism?
It would be my pleasure to explain AND discuss anything I have shared, but not in a hostile environment. I don't see the Gospel adorned here and I'm quite shocked and disappointed at the moment :( Perhaps another time, God bless.
 
Mar 14, 2011
74,601
16,814
113
It would be my pleasure to explan AND discuss anything I have shared, but not in a hostile environment. I don't see the Gospel adorned here and I'm quite shocked and disappointed at the moment :( Perhaps another time, God bless.
Sorry, Was just trying to give you the opportunity to explain what you meant. I did not want to just assume.. It is easy to misunderstand people in threads like this.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Clearly, the Word of God is also not indifferent to good works. Christians who live in habitual, unrepentant sin show themselves not to be true Christians. Of course, we all stumble (James 3:2; 1 John 1:8). But there’s a difference between falling into sin and jumping in with both feet. It doesn’t matter the sin—pride, slander, robbery, covetousness, or sexual immorality—if we give ourselves to it and live in it with joyful abandon, can we still claim to be a new creation in Him?
How many seconds/minutes/days/weeks/years of unrepentant sin would be the indication that someone is not "true" Christian?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Fourth, we do good so that we can be assured of our right standing before God. Faith alone justifies, but the faith that justifies is never alone. By bearing good fruit, we show that we are a good tree (Matt 7:15-20) and make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).
So then faith requires works because it is never alone?

This then means if there are no work(s) there is no faith in which case we are not justified by faith alone?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
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Amen to that Brother, but ZERO? I'd like to share that it's imperative to acknowledge the 'results' of Salvation/becoming a NEW creation in Christ, for in not doing so, our so called Faith and Salvation is dead see James 2:17.

One of the common objections to the Christian view of Salvation, especially in its Reformed expression, is that Salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone leads to moral license. If we can’t earn one tiny iota of deliverance from sin by our good works, then why do good at all?

First, we do good because the Holy Spirit is working in us to make us more like Jesus (2 Cor 3:18). The same Spirit who caused us to be born again and enabled us to believe, will also work to make us Holy (Rom 6:9-11).

Second, we do good out of gratitude (Rom 12:1-2). This is not to suggest that God saves us and then we work the rest of our lives to pay Him back for the favour (Rom 11:33-36). Rather, we do good because the wonder of our Salvation produces such thankfulness in our hearts that it is our pleasure to serve God!

Third, we do good so that God might be praised by the works we display in His name. “By this My Father is gloried,” Jesus said, “that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples” (John 15:8).

Fourth, we do good so that we can be assured of our right standing before God. Faith alone justifies, but the faith that justifies is never alone. By bearing good fruit, we show that we are a good tree (Matt 7:15-20) and make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).

Fifth, we do good in order that we might adorn the Gospel (Titus 2:10) and make it attractive to outsiders (1 Peter 2:12).

Clearly, the Word of God is also not indifferent to good works. Christians who live in habitual, unrepentant sin show themselves not to be true Christians. Of course, we all stumble (James 3:2; 1 John 1:8). But there’s a difference between falling into sin and jumping in with both feet. It doesn’t matter the sin—pride, slander, robbery, covetousness, or sexual immorality—if we give ourselves to it and live in it with joyful abandon, can we still claim to be a new creation in Him?

Paul says that God's chosen one who has been made holy by Grace must show faith by actually loving (Galatians 5:6) and in this way obeying the law, i.e., the law or commandment of Christ and His Spirit (see Romans 8:2).

I understand that the two are intertwined and that good works are 'evidence' of God's sonship. However they aren't from our volition alone, we need the support of God's Grace and the work of the Holy Spirit within us, for Jesus said "Without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5).

WRONG!

ONE, We do good, because we LOVE HIM!

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

That LOVE is the seed in our Hearts (human spirit), that produces the SAME KIND OF LOVE in our Hearts for GOD and For the Brethren.

1 John 4:19 (HCSB)
19 We love because He first loved us.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.''

Titus 3:6-8 (HCSB)
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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Amen to that Brother, but ZERO? I'd like to share that it's imperative to acknowledge the 'results' of Salvation/becoming a NEW creation in Christ, for in not doing so, our so called Faith and Salvation is dead see James 2:17.

One of the common objections to the Christian view of Salvation, especially in its Reformed expression, is that Salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone leads to moral license. If we can’t earn one tiny iota of deliverance from sin by our good works, then why do good at all?

First, we do good because the Holy Spirit is working in us to make us more like Jesus (2 Cor 3:18). The same Spirit who caused us to be born again and enabled us to believe, will also work to make us Holy (Rom 6:9-11).

Second, we do good out of gratitude (Rom 12:1-2). This is not to suggest that God saves us and then we work the rest of our lives to pay Him back for the favour (Rom 11:33-36). Rather, we do good because the wonder of our Salvation produces such thankfulness in our hearts that it is our pleasure to serve God!

Third, we do good so that God might be praised by the works we display in His name. “By this My Father is gloried,” Jesus said, “that you bear much fruit and so prove to be My disciples” (John 15:8).

Fourth, we do good so that we can be assured of our right standing before God. Faith alone justifies, but the faith that justifies is never alone. By bearing good fruit, we show that we are a good tree (Matt 7:15-20) and make our calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:10).

Fifth, we do good in order that we might adorn the Gospel (Titus 2:10) and make it attractive to outsiders (1 Peter 2:12).

Clearly, the Word of God is also not indifferent to good works. Christians who live in habitual, unrepentant sin show themselves not to be true Christians. Of course, we all stumble (James 3:2; 1 John 1:8). But there’s a difference between falling into sin and jumping in with both feet. It doesn’t matter the sin—pride, slander, robbery, covetousness, or sexual immorality—if we give ourselves to it and live in it with joyful abandon, can we still claim to be a new creation in Him?

Paul says that God's chosen one who has been made holy by Grace must show faith by actually loving (Galatians 5:6) and in this way obeying the law, i.e., the law or commandment of Christ and His Spirit (see Romans 8:2).

I understand that the two are intertwined and that good works are 'evidence' of God's sonship. However they aren't from our volition alone, we need the support of God's Grace and the work of the Holy Spirit within us, for Jesus said "Without me ye can do nothing." (John 15:5).
Read the thread migo....

Saved entirely by faith with no works, strings, religious hoop jumping required

Anything beyind that is the direct result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ.....

The simplest form

Paul, Romans ->> Before God a man is saved, justified, sanctified positionally and sealed by FAITH AND FAITH ALONE

James ->> The above faith that saves, seals, sanctifies, justifies before God can be seen by men based upon works

AND lest we forget.....We have done the work of the Father by believing on the one whom the FATHER HAS SENT....
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113
It would be my pleasure to explain AND discuss anything I have shared, but not in a hostile environment. I don't see the Gospel adorned here and I'm quite shocked and disappointed at the moment :( Perhaps another time, God bless.

Here is another FACT about SALVATION:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,368
113
Here is another FACT about SALVATION:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
One thing that has always blown my mind.....God's ability to know before habd who would believe and who would not......and how he put this all in motion before he cast down the world
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
Faith that works is the true gospel.

Faith with no consequences is dead.

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds,
3 because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.
4 Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
James 1

22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
James 2

There is a dynamic relationship James is pointing out.
Faith that is alive creates the fruit of works, and the works refine how the faith is expressed.

We seem to sit still, like you reading this post, yet we are always moving forward, always doing things that
have consequences, that are founded in life, faith and our hearts.

Though we say we are "saved", we are the complete whole of our bodies, our minds and our actions.
If one thinks one is saved in the sense of our essence, divorced of the rest of our lives, one is missing the point
and going for a diluted version of Gods intention.

God is very sad when His people say the right words but do not do the right things.

13 The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.
Isaiah 29

Faith must be complete, transforming the heart and actions, or else it is just words in the wind.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
It would be my pleasure to explain AND discuss anything I have shared, but not in a hostile environment. I don't see the Gospel adorned here and I'm quite shocked and disappointed at the moment :( Perhaps another time, God bless.
Sadly if you start creating a grove that sees only things from one perspective, faith or belief is all that
matters, and any talk about life style is self justification, God can no longer speak to the heart or the rebuke
for sin be listened to, or see consequences of sowing to the Spirit or sowing to the flesh be of any importance.

The contradiction is this. If we are sad and bitter at the hard life we have led, and believe we are saved while
not seeing any outworking in our lives of salvation, it is more like the religious crutch of things will be ok when
we die, so nothing really matters here.

But the reality is the other way around. Heaven has come to earth in our redeemed hearts, the joy of our salvation
is the thing that lifts our heads each day, as we listen and learn from our Lord and Saviour.

Do the right words convey the rejoicing of the heart, or is the rejoicing of the heart not testimony of the work
Jesus is doing in His people?

Is not a believer who exalts and glorifies our Lord and Saviour Jesus, not someone to encourage, because though
we all carry our miss-understandings, it is only in Him do we have salvation?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113
It has been a long time since I sang this song, that was in Service on Sunday. I NEED THEE EVERY HOUR. How come I imagine that WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS believers, think the THEE in the lyrics stands for SELF?

 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113

The Lord took her home about a year after this video, she died of cancer.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113

The small fenced in spot in the Pasture on their Farm, is her grave site.

Joey Feek was a special lady, and I am looking forward to meeting her in heaven.

Yes, Re-watching these videos, reminds me of the loss of my wife and the feelings came rushing back in, so I had a good cry.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,204
4,161
113
One thing that has always blown my mind.....God's ability to know before habd who would believe and who would not......and how he put this all in motion before he cast down the world

Then it is as if they want to drag GOD down to the human mental capacity, and say, "THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE."

Luke 1:37 (NIV)
37 For nothing is impossible with God."