Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Why did Jesus say that the Father is greater than the Son?
Speaking from His humanity, Jesus can certainly say, “the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

Yet speaking from His Divinity, Jesus can certainly say, "I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
 
Aug 10, 2019
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Speaking from His humanity, Jesus can certainly say, “the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28) Yet speaking from His Divinity, Jesus can certainly say, "I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
Are you speaking for the both of them or is this just your own opinion you believe as the truth?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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You did not correct me you just validated what you believe yourself to be the truth.
BTW, I did not correct you I just gave my thoughts to your question "Correct me if I'm wrong"

I just disagreed with what I think you were saying.

That's all.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,387
6,036
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Because They are one with each other just as I am with them we are one with each other all the children of God are one with each other and with with God and God with them.
There is a difference between being one in unity (as the children of God are with each other and with God) and being one in essence/nature. There is one God in essence/nature yet three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
7,077
2,929
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Speaking from His humanity, Jesus can certainly say, “the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

Yet speaking from His Divinity, Jesus can certainly say, "I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)
Posted the same but fell on deaf ears.
 
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There is a difference between being one in unity (as the children of God are with each other and with God) and being one in essence/nature. There is one God in essence/nature yet three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I do believe I will pass on your opinion of what is the truth.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
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Hi fred,

Let me say simply, until the two points of view are put forward you cannot see the difference.
The proposition is a sinner can believe Jesus and go from death to life.
The problem is scripture puts forward repentance is the only way, with walking in obedience to Jesus.
To me the absurd notion is those in sin and rebellion against Jesus will inherit the Kingdom.

But easy believism claims Jesus will compromise righteousness and justice because of this verse.
I can say planes can fly with aviation fuel. Now someone could say flying is traveling fast and not
supporting your weight by the wings. But flight is defined as the whole weight of the aircraft is
held by the wings with air giving lift to them.

What is obviously hopeful belief is if just one verse suggests compromise it is taken full on.
The problem comes from words like freedom from the law, no longer bound to its condemnation.
One can interpret this as the moral principles are fullfilled by Jesus and not by us.

But in truth it is love in our hearts that fulfills the law, not the ceremonial law of Moses, but the
moral law of Christ, because we no longer break its rules because our hearts have been changed or
are in the process of change ( sanctification / transformation ). And if one keeps a hard heart and
do not allow Him in, ofcourse one fails. I have met many examples of this belief system, where if
I touch their hearts, I am thrown out and attacked as if the heart is not something Christ addresses.

Now I know this is not a simple proposition or even accepted necessarily. But I now see why I have
had so many issues and problems in my life and in the theology held by many. Purity is the key,
and addressing how love and forgiveness applies to our hearts. God bless you
Hi FHS, let me give a gist to your long play of side comments, you seem to doubt the plain scripture. Thanks
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
2,533
486
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Strange as it seems a free gift can also have qualification criteria.
Words like worthy, cost, work, reward, all point towards qualification.
To accept the parable of the seed and the sower, nothing grows unless the soil is good and the roots go deep.
So the free gift of the seed is real, but its effect and reaction effect the final result.

If one denies this, you end up in universalism, where sinners by faith enter heaven.
But no sinner will ever enter heaven.

27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 21

Put simply sinners will be thrown out into the lake of fire. God bless you
Sinners can be saved by grace through faith. Jesus is Saviour, He came here to seek and save that which was lost and He did. Sinner saved by grace through faith whose names were written down in the book of life can never be blotted out because we are washed by the precious blood of the Lamb. Once again the gift is still a gift either rejected or received. Next, the passages I posted were not speaking of parables. A sinner can be saved and enter heaven. Paul is one, Peter is two...and you too if you will trust him to be your Saviour. Is that an easy way? Let me guess it for you, No it's not an easy way for you...

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the church in the kingdom of God and the kingdom of God is within you?

Not what we want the info for. We would like to know what type of Church you are affiliated with. So we can check them out too, to see what kind of TEACHING you have been used too. More specifically make sure they are not a cult like KINGDOM HALL's Jehovah Witnesses, or the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints - Mormons, ETC. If you are UNWILLING TO TELL US, that is an answer, as they RARELY ADMIT WHO THEY ARE, and play the bait and switch game with us; also Unchurched is also an answer, tho not a very good one. Chances are that you belong to one of Mainline Christianity's Churches, but we want to make sure. In other words, we need to know where you are coming from and what kind of teaching you have been exposed to, before you can expect us to accept you as a Brother.

Like I said I attend a Non Denominational, Conservative, OSAS, Evangelical type of Bible Teaching Church. Their sermons are about 1 hour long, and we believe in Teaching the Bible, and Explaining How it applies to our lives. It does not matter even if all you said something like "I am a Methodist, etc.," that is an answer. Yes most of us here are Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) Believers, but we have our share who believe the opposite too.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,195
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Sinners can be saved by grace through faith. Jesus is Saviour, He came here to seek and save that which was lost and He did. Sinner saved by grace through faith whose names were written down in the book of life can never be blotted out because we are washed by the precious blood of the Lamb. Once again the gift is still a gift either rejected or received. Next, the passages I posted were not speaking of parables. A sinner can be saved and enter heaven. Paul is one, Peter is two...and you too if you will trust him to be your Saviour. Is that an easy way? Let me guess it for you, No it's not an easy way for you...

Romans 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This discussion for me is so strange. Why would believers not want to walk like Jesus.
We are hardened shells, we stand still, yet we believe. why is it we find it so hard to love, to see Christ
working through us. Because our hearts are so well defended we often end up as intellectual believers
denying the value of empathy and sensitivity.

I do not understand how we can have hearts of flesh, but maybe this is what discipliship and following
is really all about. Unless we actively die to self, carry our cross, suffer pain and hurt we can never truly
understand the reality of our transformation. It is a door that Christ leads us into, but only finds its fulfilment
when we follow and begin to build the house on His foundation.

So though you quote verses at me, they reflect where your heart is, not where God can take you.
The testimony here illustrates this reality, but for the elect we shine. God bless you.
 
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Not what we want the info for. We would like to know what type of Church you are affiliated with. So we can check them out too, to see what kind of TEACHING you have been used too. More specifically make sure they are not a cult like KINGDOM HALL's Jehovah Witnesses, or the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints - Mormons, ETC. If you are UNWILLING TO TELL US, that is an answer, as they RARELY ADMIT WHO THEY ARE, and play the bait and switch game with us; also Unchurched is also an answer, tho not a very good one. Chances are that you belong to one of Mainline Christianity's Churches, but we want to make sure. In other words, we need to know where you are coming from and what kind of teaching you have been exposed to, before you can expect us to accept you as a Brother.

Like I said I attend a Non Denominational, Conservative, OSAS, Evangelical type of Bible Teaching Church. Their sermons are about 1 hour long, and we believe in Teaching the Bible, and Explaining How it applies to our lives. It does not matter even if all you said something like "I am a Methodist, etc.," that is an answer. Yes most of us here are Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) Believers, but we have our share who believe the opposite too.
If you reject me you reject Him who sent me besides all that you are not the one that does the choosing for it is written many are called but few are chosen.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
8,929
2,807
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Correct correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Holy Spirit the Father of the Son?
The HOLY TRINITY is my GOD.

The Father is GOD.
The SON is GOD.
The HOLY SPIRIT is GOD.


THREE DISTINCT PERSONAGES ALL CALLED HE IN THE BIBLE, WITH THREE SEPARATE FUNCTIONS, BUT ONE SHARED DEITY.

The simplest analogy is H2O.

It can exist as a LIQUID.
It can exist as ICE
It can exist as STEAM


It has a separate consistency, and separate Function, BUT ALL OF IT IS STILL ONE COMPOUND Known as H2O.

NO, the TITLE SON, does NOT designate OFFSPRING.

In Jewish LAW, the Father Had to designate his heir before he died. IF the Father was unhappy with his sons (say they were drunkards), the Father Could Designate anyone he chose, instead of the traditional eldest SON. EVEN HIS SERVANT, once the Heir had been Chosen, Had the right as the Future HEIR, since the Father was still alive, TO USE THE TITLE SON OF BENJAMIN or what ever the Father's first Name is. In this case, THE FATHER chose JESUS to inherit ALL that HE HAS including HIS DEITY. SO JESUS USED THE HEREDITARY TITLE, EVEN THOUGH THE FATHER WOULD NEVER DIE, SON OF GOD. Which did not designate offspring, but only a Hereditary Title.

John 3:35 (HCSB)
35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hands.

John 5:22 (HCSB)
22 The Father, in fact, judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son,

John 10:27-30 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”

John 16:15 (NKJV)
15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

I will give you another example in JESUS: Keep in Mind that with 2 or 3 witnesses, the Passage of Heir Ship, Son of TITLE, could Be Legally passed on to someone else and it would be LEGAL AND BINDING IN EVERY COURT IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL.

Joseph died BEFORE Jesus was Crucified. It was ILLEGAL for MARY to inherit LAND because all women could not inherit land in ISRAEL at that time. Mary's Father was Heli, and he only had Daughters and Mary was the oldest. Since IT IS ILLEGAL TO INHERIT PROPERTY, and Heli had a LOT of Property it had to go to JOSEPH, Mary's Spouse, when Heli died. Thus Joseph's name appears on Mary's genealogy list because Joseph was the legal heir to the Property of Heli, because of his marriage to Mary. Joseph, then had the legal right to call himself Son of Heli, because of that inheritance law. AND Joseph was the NAMED HEIR to His Father, who also had LOTS OF PROPERTY.

So Joseph was a VERY RICH MAN when he died, probably unexpectedly. When there is no Inheritance Contract, it goes to the Eldest Son, which is JESUS, by marriage.

Matthew 8:20 (CSBBible)
20 Jesus told him, "Foxes have dens, and birds of the sky have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

So we know that Joseph had to have died after this moment, and before JESUS was Crucified. So by inheritance Jesus had PLENTY OF PROPERTY to give to HIS MOTHER, to take care of her, BUT MARY STILL CANNOT INHERIT PROPERTY. SO WHO THEN DID JESUS CHOOSE?
At the Cross were three Women to be Witnesses of the Property Inheritance Contract, which can be ONLY VERBAL, and STILL LEGAL.

John 19:25-27 (HCSB)
25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple He loved standing there, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.”
27 Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.


FROM THAT VERY MOMENT, JOHN, had the right to use the Inheritance TITLE: Son of Joseph.

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO EVEN MENTION THE THREE OTHER WOMEN. THEY ARE THE 2 OR 3 WITNESSES REQUIRED, to witness the Verbal Inheritance Contract legal and binding. Can you SEE IT ? ? ? Jesus brothers had not yet fully believed in HIM, so HE CHOSE JOHN to take Care of HIS MOTHER as a SON. So NOW you can see that SON of GOD, does NOT designate OFFSPRING.

That Information came from a Jewish Christian, that is a LAWYER in ISRAEL. He was interviewed on the ZOLA LEVITT LIVE TV show, and I later went online and found more information.

NOW THE IMPORTANT QUESTION:

AND NO, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OF JESUS. THAT STATEMENT MAKES ME WONDER IF YOU ARE MORMON ? ? ?
They are the only ones that would come up with as statement or question like that.