Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Now I’ve heard 4 different interpretations. :giggle:

Even Dallas Theological Seminary admits there are 4 interpretations out there. But Three are false interpretations, because they have Christians losing their Salvation in one form or other.

The Only one which I BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH, BECAUSE TRUE CHRISTIAN CANNOT LOSE THEIR SALVATION IS:

"(2) that the warning is against mere profession of faith short of salvation, or tasting but not really partaking of salvation (The New Scofield Reference Bible, p. 1315);
The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty."
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Ok being dumb here.

Can one make Jesus saviour yet not make him Lord?

If so is not something missing here?
Aka discipleship?

See my answer #106,496 . Most of the world wants a SAVIOR, especially when they realize they are sinners. But you will find VERY FEW WHO WANTS A LORD TO RULE THEIR LIVES. It has to be a willing, loving acceptance of HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
We cant earn Grace because just like the money we get for our work is cointerfit, so are we, appart from God. For the money its easy to see its counterfit: it fits on the counter, and it will all burn. "This world is reserved judgment by fire," "Ricjes do not profit in the day of wrath," and some, many actually, who think they have already overcome, say we are not apointed to wrath; when God sais He disciplines every son He receives. "All that live godly shall suffer persecution." So if we havent suffered persecurion, we may be still appointed to wrath. The Lord told me recently: Your not ready. What you dont realiase it that the battle is already won, its not as simple as you getting the power, you must Love the Truth. Your prayer life must be deeper: Your prayer life must invlove every area of your life.
So for the "Grace of God to WORK in us," we must Love the Truth, and to Love the Truth, we must be filled with the Holy Spirit and to be filled we must deny ourselves and daily bear the cross and follow Jesus in His suffering and death: because our works are dead counterfit from a divided spirit. While so many are saying, not by works, awaitiing judgment. "And the fire will try every man's work," to see of what sort it is." If it is the Work of Grace: the influence of God will not fail under presure and is always sufiscient in our weakness. But the work of the flesh building for ourselves, is saved through fire but loosing our reward. "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will release the dead that are in them and every man will receive according to His work." Some of you who believe in eternal security will be saved through hell because you dont walk in the Love of God. "Faith WORKS by Love." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule (in Love) with Him." "They overcame by the blood of the Lamb and by the Word of their testimony and they Loved not their live as much as to shrink (fear) from death."
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Read the thread.....no one denies this....just that works are the result OF not FOR salvation....works do not help save, keep saved, top off salvation, finish salvation.......
Who told you that? Certanly not St James, "I will show you my Faith by my works." Nor St Paul "I worked more than the other apostles, yet not I, but the Grace of God that worked in me," and not the other apostles, as Paul acknoleged that they worked the "Work of God," also. Is all the work you know of, dead works or are you afraid of the "Work of God," ""Let us go on to perfection, and this we will do if God permits." Do you have any idea why few are permitted to go on to perfection? So many cough up in the mind of the flesh, and yet saying not by works. Well if its not by works, accep your sentence of death to your selfish ambitions, "To do the work of God." "And we know that our labour is nit in vain in the Lord." "Labour not for the meat that perishes but for the meat that endures to Eternal Life." Obviously at this time you dont understand that those who dont labour with God, dont have Eternal Life but are saved through fire, but lose their reward.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
You cant go on to perfection by leaning on your understanding of the Word, no mater how good your understanding of the word. "If I inderstand all misteries and have not Love, I am nothing." Tel me, can God save nothing? You dont need to tel me. "Everyone will receive according to their works" And your fighting against the canon, with your understanding. Who are you anyway? Am I writing to nothing. Appart from Faith that Works by Love, we are nothing.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
The Will of God is for us to bring Joy to the Lord, as "The Joy of the Lord is your strengt." "Rejoice continually, Pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the Will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." Anything else is dead works. If your not counting it all Joy that God is with you, and His Grace is sufiscient to count it all Joy, and to continue in prayer, and to be thankful in everything: for a believer "All things are of God," "Whatever you do, in tought or deed, do in the Name (Identity) of the Lord." "As He is, so are we in this world." "He that sais he dwels in Him, is to walk even as He Walked." "The Love of God compels us, if Jesus died for all, then all were dead." ends the case of dead work. "For this cause was the son of God manifest to destroy the wotks of the evil one. Now Life is about the work of God. For a believer, "All things are if God."
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Read the thread.....no one denies this....just that works are the result OF not FOR salvation....works do not help save, keep saved, top off salvation, finish salvation.......
"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are dead works that we all have to put away to work out our salvation, to be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." Being seperated from the world as a son of God. If a man is not counting it all Joy and continuing in prayer and thankful in everything, "For this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." And if a man sais this diferently than you and you quarel with Him, your not goin on to perfection either. "The servant of the Lord must not strive (quarel) but patient with those who opose themselves, as there may be hope that the Lord grant them Repentance: a work of God that we have to do continually. But your not convinced there is work along with God, to go on to perfection. Or you say it diferently and like to quarel.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
No thanks, works are the result of....NOT FOR...keep your dogma that = the Plenteous in number group that BOASTS of their right to enter based upon what they have done.....ST. JAMES and St. Paul hey......hilarious!
Who told you that? Certanly not St James, "I will show you my Faith by my works." Nor St Paul "I worked more than the other apostles, yet not I, but the Grace of God that worked in me," and not the other apostles, as Paul acknoleged that they worked the "Work of God," also. Is all the work you know of, dead works or are you afraid of the "Work of God," ""Let us go on to perfection, and this we will do if God permits." Do you have any idea why few are permitted to go on to perfection? So many cough up in the mind of the flesh, and yet saying not by works. Well if its not by works, accep your sentence of death to your selfish ambitions, "To do the work of God." "And we know that our labour is nit in vain in the Lord." "Labour not for the meat that perishes but for the meat that endures to Eternal Life." Obviously at this time you dont understand that those who dont labour with God, dont have Eternal Life but are saved through fire, but lose their reward.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
BLAH BLAH BLAH.....Ongoing sanctification has nothing to do with actually being saved by grace through faith........just another working for cake taker hey?
"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are dead works that we all have to put away to work out our salvation, to be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." Being seperated from the world as a son of God. If a man is not counting it all Joy and continuing in prayer and thankful in everything, "For this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." And if a man sais this diferently than you and you quarel with Him, your not goin on to perfection either. "The servant of the Lord must not strive (quarel) but patient with those who opose themselves, as there may be hope that the Lord grant them Repentance: a work of God that we have to do continually. But your not convinced there is work along with God, to go on to perfection. Or you say it diferently and like to quarel.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are dead works that we all have to put away to work out our salvation, to be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." Being seperated from the world as a son of God. If a man is not counting it all Joy and continuing in prayer and thankful in everything, "For this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you." And if a man sais this diferently than you and you quarel with Him, your not goin on to perfection either. "The servant of the Lord must not strive (quarel) but patient with those who opose themselves, as there may be hope that the Lord grant them Repentance: a work of God that we have to do continually. But your not convinced there is work along with God, to go on to perfection. Or you say it diferently and like to quarel.
dear friend could you spread out your text a bit its hard to read its a big wall.

ephesians 2:8-10.

saved by grace through faith.
not of works
God has prepared beforehand some works for us to walk in.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
We cant earn Grace because just like the money we get for our work is cointerfit, so are we, appart from God. For the money its easy to see its counterfit: it fits on the counter, and it will all burn. "This world is reserved judgment by fire," "Ricjes do not profit in the day of wrath," and some, many actually, who think they have already overcome, say we are not apointed to wrath; when God sais He disciplines every son He receives. "All that live godly shall suffer persecution." So if we havent suffered persecurion, we may be still appointed to wrath. The Lord told me recently: Your not ready. What you dont realiase it that the battle is already won, its not as simple as you getting the power, you must Love the Truth. Your prayer life must be deeper: Your prayer life must invlove every area of your life.
So for the "Grace of God to WORK in us," we must Love the Truth, and to Love the Truth, we must be filled with the Holy Spirit and to be filled we must deny ourselves and daily bear the cross and follow Jesus in His suffering and death: because our works are dead counterfit from a divided spirit. While so many are saying, not by works, awaitiing judgment. "And the fire will try every man's work," to see of what sort it is." If it is the Work of Grace: the influence of God will not fail under presure and is always sufiscient in our weakness. But the work of the flesh building for ourselves, is saved through fire but loosing our reward. "The sea will give up the dead that are in them, death and hell will release the dead that are in them and every man will receive according to His work." Some of you who believe in eternal security will be saved through hell because you dont walk in the Love of God. "Faith WORKS by Love." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule (in Love) with Him." "They overcame by the blood of the Lamb and by the Word of their testimony and they Loved not their live as much as to shrink (fear) from death."

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


GRACE is a Free Gift from GOD Himself.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,033
4,456
113
Obviously at this time you dont understand that those who dont labour with God, dont have Eternal Life but are saved through fire, but lose their reward.
Obviously you did not read what @dcontroversal stated.

Read the thread.....no one denies this....just that works are the result OF not FOR salvation....works do not help save, keep saved, top off salvation, finish salvation.....
Nowhere did he say in the above quote that works will not follow faith that gives us salvation.

But he is correct that the things we have done and taught will be tested through the fire but the genuine believer will be saved.
Not based on the quantity of works but the quality.
 

Caisdf

New member
Aug 17, 2019
9
1
3
We are saved by grace through the work of atonement done by Christ on the cross and by our accepting salvation.
Having said that though, James 2:17 still applies. Or to quote CS Lewis, "If there is no change in your life after your conversion then it is probably safe to say that your conversion was largely imaginary." From Mere Christianity
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
1,257
211
63
69
Walk trough the valley
Read the thread.....no one denies this....just that works are the result OF not FOR salvation....works do not help save, keep saved, top off salvation, finish salvation.......
"And besides this, ad to your Faith, Vurtue... These are the Fruit of the Spirit, that we bear as we dwell in God and walk in Love. Jesus said, "If a man abides not in me, He is cast out as a branch and withers." If we are ofended and dont forgive, we are not forgiven. If we have unresolved anger we dont go on to perfection, neither if we have pride of achievment. These are the dead works that we all have to face and be free of by the "Work of God." This is the will of God, even your santification." That is
Does not matter.....John said it is OUR faith that overcomes the world NOT our works........
"Faith Works by Love.:
"This is the work of God: to believe on Him whim He has sent." To those who "Believe," "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."
Simple equation: "Faith Hope and Love remain." Same as saying "Faith works by Love." Thats all that remains. Jesus is the hope in us and He is the one who does the work in us. "He that is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with Him." If you believe, you work along with God. Jesus was not saved by works, He wad saved by the Holy Spirit who raised Him from the dead. Yet jesus came to do the work of God. But many of you have no interest in going on to perfection, Jesus said so, "Strive to enter in at the straigjt gate, for many shall seek tobenter in and shall not be able." To some work only means trying to pprove yourselves to God on your own eforts, and not "Christ in you the Work or Hope of Glory. Good luck getting past blocks in your understanding and if you did you only begin to enter Wisdom, "To know the Love of God," Those of you who think you already know, have stoped learning. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should."
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,033
4,456
113
Jesus was not saved by works, He wad saved by the Holy Spirit who raised Him from the dead.
Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit????????

We mere mortals are saved by the testimony of the Holy Spirit who Jesus promised would find to convict us off the sin of unbelief in Jesus.

Jesus was not saved by the Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning of time.

As we know from Genesis.

I have never heard anyone away what you have said.

Please feel free to expand your statement
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit????????

We mere mortals are saved by the testimony of the Holy Spirit who Jesus promised would find to convict us off the sin of unbelief in Jesus.

Jesus was not saved by the Holy Spirit.

The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning of time.

As we know from Genesis.

I have never heard anyone away what you have said.

Please feel free to expand your statement
The fact he said what he said about JESUS being SAVED places him in the "ignore his ignorance group"
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
We are saved by grace through the work of atonement done by Christ on the cross and by our accepting salvation.
Having said that though, James 2:17 still applies. Or to quote CS Lewis, "If there is no change in your life after your conversion then it is probably safe to say that your conversion was largely imaginary." From Mere Christianity
The irony is I sometimes doubt the conversion of C.S. Lewis.:unsure:
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
The irony is I sometimes doubt the conversion of C.S. Lewis.:unsure:
Have you read Mere Christianity?

Its a great read.

Its actually been quite awhile since I have read it.

Screwtape Letters is another one I really liked.


It seemed to me that CS Lewis was pretty genuine. But it never crossed my mind to question his salvation...
I wonder why you would have that thought?

Maybe some things in some of his stories didn't follow biblical lines?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Have you read Mere Christianity?

Its a great read.

Its actually been quite awhile since I have read it.

Screwtape Letters is another one I really liked.


It seemed to me that CS Lewis was pretty genuine. But it never crossed my mind to question his salvation...
I wonder why you would have that thought?

Maybe some things in some of his stories didn't follow biblical lines?
I have read it, I actually have read all his books.

It would be more correct to state I question some of his ideas, he does use some subtle occult themes in his fiction.

I was being kinda tongue in cheek with that post, I probably should not have posted that, but they are some troubling ideas in his writings.

His best book is The Great Divorce btw ;)