Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Romans 12 teaches a transformational process.....that requires a period of growth, study and renewal of the mind....it is not instantly given.....NOW salvation, justification, being sanctified positionally and sealed ARE......but the OUTWARD man must be changed by growth and maturity which is described as an ongoing process of growth and maturity.....it is subject to successes and or failures and is tied directly to Romans 12:1-2.......as the man is changed inwardly by growth and maturity based upon a study of the word and application of the word they begin to change OUTWARDLY........for some this can be an accelerated process based upon the level of teaching they get and how they apply the word of GOD....for some it may be a very slow process if they are fed milk nonstop and never really apply what they learn.....This process is NOT hard to grasp and LIKE JESUS and others which constantly referenced creation which speaks loud and clear this can be seen easily.......

Take for instance my tame black berry plants.......I have about 20 planted......the ones that got more fertilizer, water etc. and were in better soil grew vines frmo 8 to 10 feet long this summer........the ones which had less fertilizer, water and were in soil a little harder and drier only put off about three foot vines.........

DAY unto DAY and NIGHT unto NIGHT sets forth KNOWLEDGE unless one is to challenged in an ocular manner to SEE..............

10 to 1 the ten foot vines bear more fruit than the three foot vines......NEXT YEAR

The following has been my argument from the beginning. It has not changed

Here is my reply.

None of that demonstrates that a period of growth and maturity IS REQUIRED for a believer to bear any fruit.

The above proposition is true in some cases, but it is not necessary. That is, it is not true in all cases.

A new believer can give someone a cup of cold water.

A new believer can pray for people and God might save them.

A new believer can shine for Jesus in such a way that they are drawn to Jesus through the Holy Spirit

A new believer can give to missions, and God can use that money to do great kingdom things

A new believer can go to his church on saturday and clean it so it looks nice for the Sunday service.

A new believer can pray for and support his or her pastor

A new believer can share their conversion with a friend or family member.

A new believer can give a hungry person something to eat.

A new believer can give clothing to someone in need.

A new believer can comfort a mourner.

A new believer can put a smile on Jesus's face.

All of these are fruit produced out of love for Jesus and because the person is saved.

ANYONE can do these things. You don't have to wait 50 years to show gratitude to God for saving you

THEREFORE, A PERIOD OF GROWTH AND MATURITY IS NOT NECESSARILY REQUIRED TO BEAR ANYTHING.

 

[Macabeus]

At one point you're saying that sin has been put to death at the cross.
Then you say the greater the transformation, the LESS we sin.

We STILL SIN, sin HAS NOT been put to death. Your interpretation is WRONG, it's a contradictory statement.
That which is born of God DOES NOT SIN.... The mind isn't a battle ground, there is no battle in that which IS BORN OF GOD.

Why not try figure out what part of you is born again by the INCORRUPTIBLE words of God. That's where those verses get reconciled.

Ask DC what the primary function of verb tenses in Koine greek is. I want to see what he says.

 

[Lightskin]

And those that believe are justified, regenerated, (made new), adopted, sanctified, kept by the power of God, made to be overcomers, preserved to the end, conformed to the image of His Son, and glorified. All by GRACE through FAITH

That’s the WHOLE storey🙂. That’s the Gospel. Not the watered down version you guys peddle.

I preach nothing different. I just don’t use fancy words while patting myself on the back.

 

[Macabeus]

I preach nothing different. I just don’t use fancy words while patting myself on the back.

I didn't pat myself on the back, but this is what you act like every time you reply to me.

 

[KJV1611]

Ask DC what the primary function of verb tenses in Koine greek is. I want to see what he says.

I have no clue what that means and I'm not going to badger DC.
I'm trying to show the reason why that which is born of God DOES NOT sin.

 

[Lightskin]

You do not save yourself by believing. God saves you from first to last

Show DC’s post where he said we save ourselves. Show it right here, right now.

 

[Lightskin]

I didn't pat myself on the back.

And you don't use words at all. I asked you to deal with texts numerous times, and you could not do so.

All you do is insult. I have never read you once actually deal with a text of scripture.

I couldn’t care less about texts. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I embrace the simplicity of Jesus Christ where as you enjoy self proclamations.

 

[Macabeus]

I couldn’t care less about texts. We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I embrace the simplicity of Jesus Christ where as you enjoy self proclamations.

You don't care about BIBLICAL texts?!!! Because that's what I was talking about, Maestro

 

[Lightskin]

I didn't pat myself on the back, but this is what you act like every time you reply to me.

Awww, the little hypocrite who doesn’t insult just used an insult. 😆😆😆

 

[Macabeus]

I didn't pat myself on the back.

And you don't use words at all. I asked you to deal with texts numerous times, and you could not do so.

All you do is insult. I have never read you once actually deal with a text of scripture.

 

[Lightskin]

You don't care about BIBLICAL texts?!!! Because that's what I was talking about, Maestro

Show DC’s post where he says we save ourselves. Put up or shut up.

 

[Macabeus]

...here as you enjoy self proclamations.

Hi Lightskin's argument

 

[Lightskin]

I didn't pat myself on the back.

And you don't use words at all. I asked you to deal with texts numerous times, and you could not do so.

All you do is insult. I have never read you once actually deal with a text of scripture.

There’s nothing to deal with; Jesus states that whoever believes in him has salvation. But that’s not good enough for you, you want to dissect everything and take away the simplicity of Jesus.

 

[Macabeus]

Show DC’s post where he says we save ourselves. Put up or shut up.

He said saved by faith plus nothing. SO our faith saves us and nothing else?

 

[Lightskin]

And yet you still haven’t supplied us with the DC’s post where he says we save ourselves. Run Forrest, run!

 

[Lightskin]

He said saved by faith plus nothing. SO our faith saves us and nothing else?

Context, son, context. Talk about not dealing with words properly.

 

[Macabeus]

There’s nothing to deal with; Jesus states that whoever believes in him has salvation. But that’s not good enough for you, you want to dissect everything and take away the simplicity of Jesus.

I believe that whoever believes in Jesus is saved. My six year old grandson believes that. When are you going to stop sucking on milk and move on to maturity by accepting other Biblical truths.

What do you do as a minister? Preach the same message to your sheep every service. You just teach "get saved", "get saved", "get saved" and nothing about growing or the blessings of salvation?

 

[Lightskin]

I believe that whoever believes in Jesus is saved. My six year old grandson believes that. When are you going to stop sucking on milk and move on to maturity by accepting other Biblical truths.

What do you do as a minister? Preach the same message to your sheep every service. You just teach "get saved", "get saved", "get saved" and nothing about growing or the blessings of salvation?

You seem angry that God’s grace is simple in it’s truest form. Why are you so angry? Hmmm, very interesting.

 

[Macabeus]

Context, son, context. Talk about not dealing with words properly.

Faith plus nothing means the same thing, no matter how you slice it.

I don't attribute my salvation to my faith. I attribute it to grace.

It's like the people who say "just believe this set of propositions and God will save you", instead of preaching the Gospel and letting God draw them to faith. It produces professers, but not possessers.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Well, some would say these verses are prescriptive and others would say they are descriptive.

I 100% think because of the wording in these are many other passages it is easy to hold either view now or later. I came to my view, and im always open to new evidence, but I came to my view from looking into the original language and trying to understand the word as a whole. Because many times future things, particularly prophecy is spoken as if it is already done, yet it is still future. It is as good as done I believe, but stil future.

1 Peter 1:3-9, " 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.