Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
So is everyone saved then?

Or just the ones who know the Lord Jesus Christ and call on His Name?
Grace is the effectual cause of our salvation, but grace can be resisted. Why do I have to keep telling you guys stuff that a regenerate child can understand?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Grace is the effectual cause of our salvation, but grace can be resisted. Why do I have to keep telling you guys stuff that a regenerate child can understand?
Well you didn't answer the actual question.

What you did was show "why" people who aren't saved, aren't saved. I think is what you showed.

To answer the question you would say "No, not everyone is saved, or Yes, everyone is saved."

And then maybe "It has nothing to do with who you call on" or "It does matter".

But you avoided all that.


So not only have you not answered the question but now you have contradicted yourself.

If I don't have a part in Salvation, 0%, then how do I hold onto Grace or resist Grace? If I decide, and it is my strength that determines whether Grace will have its way or not?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Well you didn't answer the actual question.

What you did was show "why" people who aren't saved, aren't saved. I think is what you showed.

To answer the question you would say "No, not everyone is saved, or Yes, everyone is saved."

And then maybe "It has nothing to do with who you call on" or "It does matter".

But you avoided all that.


So not only have you not answered the question but now you have contradicted yourself.

If I don't have a part in Salvation, 0%, then how do I hold onto Grace or resist Grace? If I decide, and it is my strength that determines whether Grace will have its way or not?
1. No not everyone is saved

2. I did not ask if you had any part in your salvation. I asked how much power did your faith add to Gods power in regeneration. HUGE DIFFERENCE

3. The power is not in our faith. The power comes from the one in whom we believe🙂
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
1. No not everyone is saved

2. I did not ask if you had any part in your salvation. I asked how much power did your faith add to Gods power in regeneration. HUGE DIFFERENCE

3. The power is not in our faith. The power comes from the one in whom we believe🙂
So I'm having trouble with #3, a little.

If some resist Grace and others do not resist Grace, then it is God that has caused some to resist Grace and others to not resist Grace?

Or is it lack of faith that causes some to resist Grace and just the right amount of faith that causes others to not resist Grace?

You see how tricky this seems to explain?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
From FAITH TO FAITH IT IS WRITTEN..THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.....

hmmmmmm !
John 5:1
So I'm having trouble with #3, a little.

If some resist Grace and others do not resist Grace, then it is God that has caused some to resist Grace and others to not resist Grace?

Or is it lack of faith that causes some to resist Grace and just the right amount of faith that causes others to not resist Grace?

You see how tricky this seems to explain?
You are overthinking it


My point is not that grace is irresistible. I am not a Calvinist. To make it very simple

1 John 5:1. Whoever is believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God...

The verb translated “has been born” is perfect passive indicative

Indicative means it is a statement of fact

Passive means that the subject (whoever or everyone that) is not performing the action. Rather they are being acted upon.

Perfect tense describes the type of action that happened in the past, which is having continuous results

It is a fact that everyone who believes has been born (happened in the past with the continuous results) of God (Hes the one who produced the action of begetting us)
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,064
1,527
113
How about 0. If you know anything about regeneration, 0 is the right answer

The saving power/dunamis/energia is not in the faith, but in the one whom the faith is placed in. 👍👍👍👍

Hmmmmmmm....

If anyone contradicts this....😂😂😂
I said 100% lolz. im in trouble
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,064
1,527
113
John 5:1


You are overthinking it


My point is not that grace is irresistible. I am not a Calvinist. To make it very simple

1 John 5:1. Whoever is believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God...

The verb translated “has been born” is perfect passive indicative

Indicative means it is a statement of fact

Passive means that the subject (whoever or everyone that) is not performing the action. Rather they are being acted upon.

Perfect tense describes the type of action that happened in the past, which is having continuous results

It is a fact that everyone who believes has been born (happened in the past with the continuous results) of God (Hes the one who produced the action of begetting us)
i read it as once you believe you are born of God.

but i can see you can also read it as: you believe in Jesus and it shows you are born of God.

i dont say i save myself when i said 100% to your question maybe i didnt get it
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
John 5:1


You are overthinking it


My point is not that grace is irresistible. I am not a Calvinist. To make it very simple

1 John 5:1. Whoever is believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God...

The verb translated “has been born” is perfect passive indicative

Indicative means it is a statement of fact

Passive means that the subject (whoever or everyone that) is not performing the action. Rather they are being acted upon.

Perfect tense describes the type of action that happened in the past, which is having continuous results

It is a fact that everyone who believes has been born (happened in the past with the continuous results) of God (Hes the one who produced the action of begetting us)
If I fell down a well, it is the rescuer who would save me.

We are all in a miry pit, and all that is needed from us is to cry for help (Salvation). The one proviso being, we must believe 100% that Jesus is the promised Messiah because only He can save us. So faith in Jesus is paramount, and with that He will forgive us our sins, which no one else can do.

Do you believe 100% that Jesus is the Son of God, the promised Messiah?
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
i read it as once you believe you are born of God.

but i can see you can also read it as: you believe in Jesus and it shows you are born of God.

i dont say i save myself when i said 100% to your question maybe i didnt get it
Once you believe, you are a child of God. CORRECT

You believe because you are a child of God. CORRECT TOO

It’s not either or. It’s both. 🙂
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
If I fell down a well, it is the rescuer who would save me.

We are all in a miry pit, and all that is needed from us is to cry for help (Salvation). The one proviso being, we must believe 100% that Jesus is the promised Messiah because only He can save us. So faith in Jesus is paramount, and with that He will forgive us our sins, which no one else can do.

Do you believe 100% that Jesus is the Son of God, the promised Messiah?
Yes I believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Saviour of all who believe.

...and forgiveness of sins is one of MANY blessings that God showers on undeserving sinners who trust Him.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
I said 100% lolz. im in trouble
Nah you just misunderstood the question

My point is this. The power is not in our faith. The power is in the one we believe

Setting aside regen for a moment. Jesus said “ if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain be moved and it will be moved. Is it your faith that moves mountains or God? It is God. faith is necessary, but of God is the power and to Him is the Glory

In the same way, if we have faith, which is itself a gift of God, we will be raised to new life. Faith is necessary. Without it, we are lost, and it is the only thing we have to bring, (but remember it is a gift of God), but in salvation, His is the power and to Him goes all the Glory
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Nah you just misunderstood the question

My point is this. The power is not in our faith. The power is in the one we believe

Setting aside regen for a moment. Jesus said “ if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain be moved and it will be moved. Is it your faith that moves mountains or God? It is God. faith is necessary, but of God is the power and to Him is the Glory

In the same way, if we have faith, which is itself a gift of God, we will be raised to new life. Faith is necessary. Without it, we are lost, and it is the only thing we have to bring, (but remember it is a gift of God), but in salvation, His is the power and to Him goes all the Glory

Well nothing more to say. You all be blessed.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
So I'm having trouble with #3, a little.

If some resist Grace and others do not resist Grace, then it is God that has caused some to resist Grace and others to not resist Grace?

Or is it lack of faith that causes some to resist Grace and just the right amount of faith that causes others to not resist Grace?

You see how tricky this seems to explain?
Let me give you a full answer on this.

1. God does not cause anyone to resist His grace. We do a good enough job of that. Although, there is a thing called judicial hardening

2. Gods grace gets all the credit in our salvation. Including the fact we did not resist.

3. Yes, lack of faith is what causes some to resist. The fact that faith is itself a gift does not rule this out. A gift may be rejected

4. Faith alone is not what causes us to not resist. I think faith and repentance are the two ingredients that incline our hearts to receive God’s gifts of grace. It is written, Repent and believe the Gospel

5. Without repentance, we don’t feel we have a need for Gods grace

6. Repentance is also granted to us by God. God gets all the Glory in our repentance too
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
Let me give you a full answer on this.

1. God does not cause anyone to resist His grace. We do a good enough job of that. Although, there is a thing called judicial hardening

2. Gods grace gets all the credit in our salvation. Including the fact we did not resist.

3. Yes, lack of faith is what causes some to resist. The fact that faith is itself a gift does not rule this out. A gift may be rejected

4. Faith alone is not what causes us to not resist. I think faith and repentance are the two ingredients that incline our hearts to receive God’s gifts of grace. It is written, Repent and believe the Gospel

5. Without repentance, we don’t feel we have a need for Gods grace

6. Repentance is also granted to us by God. God gets all the Glory in our repentance too
Sorry that I saw a need to answer Grandpas post after I said nothing more to say.
 
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
So I'm having trouble with #3, a little.

If some resist Grace and others do not resist Grace, then it is God that has caused some to resist Grace and others to not resist Grace?

Or is it lack of faith that causes some to resist Grace and just the right amount of faith that causes others to not resist Grace?

You see how tricky this seems to explain?
I apologize for saying unkind words to you after your earlier posts.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
1 John 5:1. Everyone believing (present tense) has been born of God (perfect tense)

Hmmmmmmmmm
Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;