Not By Works
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I see what you are getting at. These people were Jews, believers in the old covenant and now that the new one was coming in they were in that half-way there spot. Being obedient and having the Scriptures and lineage they were of Abraham but at the same time they rejected Christ causing them to fall away in the sense that they did not accept the promised Messiah.
Letter to the Hebrews. First time I have ever heard a proper OSAS explanation to that as well, I enjoy the historical view you took on it.
Can you answer one more: What about these verses:
James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
If anyone could answer these verses in light of OSAS as you did with the previous one I asked and VCO did with the other two, I would appreciate it. Help me put it all together mates
Letter to the Hebrews. First time I have ever heard a proper OSAS explanation to that as well, I enjoy the historical view you took on it.
Can you answer one more: What about these verses:
James 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
If anyone could answer these verses in light of OSAS as you did with the previous one I asked and VCO did with the other two, I would appreciate it. Help me put it all together mates
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And to be honest not sure we ever will.
The thread we are discussing here has been debated for almost 2,000 years and will continue to debated until Jesus comes back.
All the verses concerning salvation have been interpreted by great theological persons over the years and yes even these great theological people disagree.
Just one simple example
John 8:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. (NKJV)
slave of sin: Jesus was speaking of spiritual slavery. Such a slave cannot break away from his bondage. He must have someone else set him free (see Rom. 8:34) NKJV Study notes
Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
slave to sin. Because sinners cannot break free by their own strength (see Ro 6:18 and note). NIV study notes
Romans 6:18
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
So it looks like two different interpretations.
One identifies what this sin is yet the other does not.
So is the sin based on these verses of a spiritual nature or a physical nature?
For me I believe that if we focus on the physical then we negate the spiritual yet if we focus on the spiritual we start to negate the physical.
Yet the focus on the spiritual should not only be to negate the physical.
Secular psychology have strategies in place to do that. To negate the physical.
The Pharisees focused on the physical, even to extent that they added so much rules and regulations to get round it. And as a result they brow beat everyone else.
Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father (that has been reconciled in scripture and that is definitely true) but Jesus also made the point of the spiritual element of the law.
That law is love, the golden rule.
The truth is that we are the Fathers children.
He loves us as much as he loves Jesus (Jesus said that)
We love him because he first loved us.
As a result we want to be like him.
If so good works to earn his love it is futile, if we do good works to be saved it is futile.
If we could work our way to salvation then Jesus would not have had to die on the cross.
Anyway gone on a bit and digressed.
Sin is sin whether it be commission or omission. No excuse.
Jesus died for that.
For me we are sanctified by the blood.
How do we trample on it?
We do it by trying to sanctify ourselves.
We try to reconcile ourselves to the Father
Yet we know we are reconciled through faith and not works.
The thread we are discussing here has been debated for almost 2,000 years and will continue to debated until Jesus comes back.
All the verses concerning salvation have been interpreted by great theological persons over the years and yes even these great theological people disagree.
Just one simple example
John 8:34
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. (NKJV)
slave of sin: Jesus was speaking of spiritual slavery. Such a slave cannot break away from his bondage. He must have someone else set him free (see Rom. 8:34) NKJV Study notes
Romans 8:34
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
slave to sin. Because sinners cannot break free by their own strength (see Ro 6:18 and note). NIV study notes
Romans 6:18
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
So it looks like two different interpretations.
One identifies what this sin is yet the other does not.
So is the sin based on these verses of a spiritual nature or a physical nature?
For me I believe that if we focus on the physical then we negate the spiritual yet if we focus on the spiritual we start to negate the physical.
Yet the focus on the spiritual should not only be to negate the physical.
Secular psychology have strategies in place to do that. To negate the physical.
The Pharisees focused on the physical, even to extent that they added so much rules and regulations to get round it. And as a result they brow beat everyone else.
Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father (that has been reconciled in scripture and that is definitely true) but Jesus also made the point of the spiritual element of the law.
That law is love, the golden rule.
The truth is that we are the Fathers children.
He loves us as much as he loves Jesus (Jesus said that)
We love him because he first loved us.
As a result we want to be like him.
If so good works to earn his love it is futile, if we do good works to be saved it is futile.
If we could work our way to salvation then Jesus would not have had to die on the cross.
Anyway gone on a bit and digressed.
Sin is sin whether it be commission or omission. No excuse.
Jesus died for that.
For me we are sanctified by the blood.
How do we trample on it?
We do it by trying to sanctify ourselves.
We try to reconcile ourselves to the Father
Yet we know we are reconciled through faith and not works.
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My question was regarding the "believe for a while and then fall away" part. No need to get upset. If you do not want to discuss the topic at hand why are you here? I was being very polite, and so were you when you answered my questions regarding 1 Cor 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21 and I have not brought those up again, these verses I brought up because I have not found a good answer for them yet. What is the problem?
I've learned not to trust someone just because they are among the great theologians of the church. But that is what our natural inclinations cause us to do. Actually, it's the lowly and humble and pure in heart who have truth revealed to them.
25At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. - Matthew 11:25 NAS
I just know theologians have gotten too many things wrong to trust them in everything they say. We trust them too quickly. Just being in an exalted place among men should make them suspect right off the bat. They, especially, have to be checked to see if what they say can be confirmed in the scriptures. They excel in intellectual wisdom and knowledge but often lack spiritual insight.
25At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. - Matthew 11:25 NAS
I just know theologians have gotten too many things wrong to trust them in everything they say. We trust them too quickly. Just being in an exalted place among men should make them suspect right off the bat. They, especially, have to be checked to see if what they say can be confirmed in the scriptures. They excel in intellectual wisdom and knowledge but often lack spiritual insight.
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I KNOW BETTER, he has been a Christian Brother for YEARS. You only join the last of April, so we are still examining your FRUIT. And you falsely accusing a Christian Brother, is BAD FRUIT.
Romans 14:13 (HCSB)
13 Therefore, let us no longer criticize one another. Instead decide never to put a stumbling block or pitfall in your brother’s way.
I am quoting EG "if continues to believe is required. Then we will continue to thirst."
- So I am not falsely accusing the brethren - This IS what he believes. So a Satanist who COMES TO the Lord, then falls away through unbelief..... - IS STILL SAVED according to EG. That's what he believes. Its what he says. Its what he fights for.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH
You before JESUS right before being cast --->But LORD the commentary said and I did....
ME before JESUS before being allowed in -->Lord it is all you and your word is true
We will see clown........the end is near and you have nothing to offer JESUS
You before JESUS right before being cast --->But LORD the commentary said and I did....
ME before JESUS before being allowed in -->Lord it is all you and your word is true
We will see clown........the end is near and you have nothing to offer JESUS
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That PRECONCEIVED FALSE OPINION of what OSAS FAITH, must rattle their cages, and blinds them to the TRUTH, because all they hear is OSAS, and off they go, in what seems like a BURNING IN THE EYES Tangent; based on nothing but false facts. Can you imagine the sermons they must have heart about us, without even realizes the person in the pulpit, is only reiterating what he was taught by a False Teacher.
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Firstly, I have been on the forum for almost 3 years, not since April.
"We are examining your Fruit" - we who are the "We"? OSAS believers only? X number of Posts Posters? Who are the "We"?
Looking at what the moderators posted here: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/
It seems to me that the moderators actually have it RIGHT. They see this very destructive doctrine. And it seems to have taken root to a degree. I have also seen a lot of people banned over the years Grace777 etc with whom there have been epic battles over doctrine. As to why some are or are not banned is not up to me (or I suspect the "We" club)? It is up to the moderators. If the moderators views still hold, then I think they can be glad that there are a few voices still standing for the truth against this Hyper Grace heresy.
So you can shout as loud as you want that its not necessary to HOLD ONTO the Faith. I for one will never yield to that doctrine. Nor will I be quieted about this. A lot of established contributors here have their noses out of joint as I quote mainly scripture to refute OSAS. And I will continue to do so. Because this is the Bible Discussion Forum.
I have nothing personal against anyone here. My prayer is that eyes are opened.
"We are examining your Fruit" - we who are the "We"? OSAS believers only? X number of Posts Posters? Who are the "We"?
Looking at what the moderators posted here: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/
It seems to me that the moderators actually have it RIGHT. They see this very destructive doctrine. And it seems to have taken root to a degree. I have also seen a lot of people banned over the years Grace777 etc with whom there have been epic battles over doctrine. As to why some are or are not banned is not up to me (or I suspect the "We" club)? It is up to the moderators. If the moderators views still hold, then I think they can be glad that there are a few voices still standing for the truth against this Hyper Grace heresy.
So you can shout as loud as you want that its not necessary to HOLD ONTO the Faith. I for one will never yield to that doctrine. Nor will I be quieted about this. A lot of established contributors here have their noses out of joint as I quote mainly scripture to refute OSAS. And I will continue to do so. Because this is the Bible Discussion Forum.
I have nothing personal against anyone here. My prayer is that eyes are opened.
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